Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: unspun; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; Lord_Calvinus; TomSmedley
Are the people arguing with you about Luke 21 trying to say that Jesus has already returned "in a cloud with power and great glory?"

Luke 21 has already happened. The armies of Rome surrounded Jeruslem and destroyed the temple just as Jesus predicted. That is not in doubt by most Bible scholars.

"Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" Jesus said, 'I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.' " (Mark 14:61,62; cf. Matt. 26:64)

Philip Mauro remarks whether these signs are to be taken as literal or figurative:

In the first place, seeing we are debarred by the Lord's plain teaching from taking these commotions to be physical signs, visible to the eye, preceding and heralding His coming, or as having any special connection with that event, it would seem almost imperative that we give the words a figurative meaning. For it is not conceivable that, in speaking of this long age which was to be so full of important happenings, Christ would single out for mention nothing but a few isolated phenomena of nature in the physical heavens. This consideration practically compels us to find a meaning for the words which would make them descriptive of some distinguishing characteristic of the age, or at least of the latter part of it.

When we turn to Luke's account we find strong confirmation of this view. This confirmation appears in two particulars, first in the manner in which the reference to the sun, moon and stars is introduced; and second in the fact that it is directly coupled with certain general characteristics of the age, such as we should expect in a brief utterance of this kind. For Luke gives it thus (we put the salient part in italics):

For there shall be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations; and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars, and upon the earth distress of nations with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring: Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth; for the powers of heaven shall be shaken (#Lu 21:23-26).

According to this account the Lord does not break off His predictions abruptly at the capture and destruction of Jerusalem, but follows the Jews in their dispersion unto all nations, and also foretells the treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Thus we are carried into the period which follows after the tribulation of those days, and are informed that that period is divinely designated the times of the Gentiles. {1} And now immediately follows (in Luke's account) the passage we are examining, And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. But here we have also the further statement, and on the earth distress of nations with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring, men's hearts failing them, etc. From these words it is clear that the Lord is giving (which, as we have pointed out, is what we should expect) some very broad and general characteristics of our age, with an eye especially upon the closing part thereof. Moreover, in speaking of the unsettled state of the nations He uses a familiar figurative expression, namely, the sea and the waves roaring. This figure represents the turbulence of the peoples of the earth (see #Re 17:15, Isa 8:7), just as the sun, moon and stars represent rulership, governments, and authorities. Thus we find good reason for concluding that the Lord is here speaking figuratively of unusual happenings in the political firmament, that is to say, in the sphere of governments, or what Paul calls the higher powers (#Ro 13:1).

In Isaiah 13:7-10 (#Isa 13:7-10) we have an example of the use of this figure. It occurs in connection with a description of the day of the Lord. We quote verse 10: For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light; the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. Taking these words in connection with Genesis 1:16-18, (#Ge 1:16-18) and with Joseph's dream about the sun, moon and stars (which his father and brethren had no need of one to interpret for them, (#Ge 37:9,10), and in connection also with (#Eze 32:7 Joe 2:31, 3:15 Re 12:1,) we get the idea that the sun stands for authority on earth in the broadest sense, and the moon for lesser authority, and the stars for prominent persons in the sphere of government.

I.e., it's not meant to be taken "literally".
325 posted on 09/04/2006 6:22:20 PM PDT by topcat54
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 320 | View Replies ]


To: unspun; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; Lord_Calvinus; TomSmedley
Mauro also wrote:
It is greatly to be regretted that those who, in our day, give themselves to the study and exposition of prophecy, seem not to be aware of the immense significance of the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, which was accompanied by the extinction of Jewish national existence, and the dispersion of the Jewish people among all the nations. The failure to recognize the significance of that event, and the vast amount of prophecy which it fulfilled, has been the cause of great confusion, for the necessary consequence of missing the past fulfilment of predicted events is to leave on our hands a mass of prophecies for which we must needs contrive fulfilments in the future. The harmful results are two fold; for first, we are thus deprived of the evidential value, and the support to the faith, of those remarkable fulfilments of prophecy which are so clearly presented to us in authentic contemporary histories; and second, our vision of things to come is greatly obscured and confused by the transference to the future of predicted events which, in fact, have already happened, and whereof complete records have been preserved for our information.

Yet, in the face of all this, we have today a widely held scheme of prophetic interpretation, which has for its very cornerstone the idea that, when God's time to remember His promised mercies to Israel shall at last have come, He will gather them into their ancient land again, only to pour upon them calamities and distresses far exceeding even the horrors which attended the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. This is, we are convinced, an error of such magnitude as to derange the whole program of unfulfilled prophecy. (The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation )

All I can say is Amen.
327 posted on 09/04/2006 6:31:35 PM PDT by topcat54
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 325 | View Replies ]

To: topcat54
"Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" Jesus said, 'I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.' " (Mark 14:61,62; cf. Matt. 26:64)

Thanks for the notations, topcat. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess, as the Holy Spirit inspired the Word to be written.

Why would Jesus put his universal act of revealing himself as King of the Universe out of the sight of some?

Looks to me you can rest assured, everyone will see the Son of Man, at his Revelation.

330 posted on 09/04/2006 7:38:25 PM PDT by unspun (What do you think? Please think, before you answer.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 325 | View Replies ]

To: topcat54

That is not in doubt by most Bible scholars.
= = = = =

Please show me the solid, well constructed research study proving that

"most"

I'll be waiting.


355 posted on 09/04/2006 8:45:25 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 325 | View Replies ]

To: topcat54; Quix; P-Marlowe

So, then.

You are maintaining that Jesus has returned, but that it is "symbolic?"

That makes you a preterist instead of a semi-preterist, doesn't it?


363 posted on 09/04/2006 9:00:52 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 325 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson