Posted on 08/29/2006 7:24:18 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
I admire Rick Warren, but I think this is a real mistake. The fact is that Rick Warren will not be allowed to say what must be said, and that is to challenge the view of the state as god in North Korea. In the minds of millions of North Koreans, the state is the final ethical arbiter. To truly preach Christ, you must knock down this worldview that sets itself up against a knowledge of God (2 Cor. 10:5.) WIll North Korea allow this? I doubt it.
Will Rick be allowed to meet with real North Korean Christians, Christians that are not "licensed" by the state? Since it's illegal there, I seriously doubt it.
Billy Graham got in some trouble about 25 years ago after he preached in the Soviet Union. What these great men of God should do is explain to the host country what they will say if invited, get the invitation refused, and trust that the word of Christ will be spread in North Korea regardless. (In this case, probably from China.)
Yet if Rick Warren understands this much, he knows the answer to the fundamental question of our time.
I have no idea why you think anybody follows Rick Warren. The Holy Spirit is convicting many for Christ through Warren's ministry and other people see what's happening and are getting involved.
I think we would do well to follow Paul's words in Col 3:1-15 and Titus 3.
Now, I'm sure I don't agree with everything Warren says but he's got the fundamentals down solid. From his What We Believe website:
ABOUT GODThe above is what Rick Warren believes and teaches. With what do you disagree?
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. Genesis 1:1,26,27; 3:22; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14ABOUT MAN
Man is made in the spiritual image of God, to be like Him in character. He is the supreme object of God´s creation. Although man has tremendous potential for good, he is marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God called "sin". This attitude separates man from God. Genesis 1:27; Psalm 8:3-6; Isaiah 53:6a; Romans 3:23; Isaiah 59:1,2ABOUT ETERNITY
Man was created to exist forever. He will either exist eternally separated from God by sin, or in union with God through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is Hell. To be eternally in union with Him is eternal life. Heaven and Hell are places of eternal existence. John 3:16; John 2:25; John 5:11-13; Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:15; 1 John 5:11-12; Matthew 25:31-46ABOUT JESUS CHRIST
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all men by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven´s glory and will return again to earth to reign as King of kings, and Lord of lords. Matthew 1:22,23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5, 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14,15; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13ABOUT SALVATION
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God´s offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sin´s penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith. Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; John 14:6, 1:12; Titus 3:5; Galatians 3:26; Romans 5:1ABOUT ETERNAL SECURITY
Because God gives man eternal life through Jesus Christ, the believer is secure in salvation for eternity. Salvation is maintained by the grace and power of God, not by the self-effort of the Christian. It is the grace and keeping power of God that gives this security. John 10:29; 2 Timothy 1:12; Hebrews 7:25; 10:10,14; 1 Peter 1:3-5ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT
The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son as God. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus Christ. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right. The Christian seeks to live under His control daily. 2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13, 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 2:12, 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:1ABOUT THE BIBLE
The Bible is God´s word to all men. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without any mixture of error. 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20,21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalm 119:105,160, 12:6; Proverbs 30:5)
And it's perfectly okay for you to think that. A friend told me what Rick Warren wants on his tombstone, and while I don't know anything about the author of this article (who seems to agree with you about North Korea), he states the following, which is exactly what my friend said:
At the end of the television special Warren said there were four words he wanted on his tombstone when he died: “At Least He Tried.” I give him full credit, he is trying to make a real difference in this world and people who love Christ ought to love and support him in every way possible. We have far too few mega-church pastors with either the vision or integrity of Rick Warren.It really grieves my spirit to read what some say about Rick Warren. He's trying, and if some people don't agree with what he's trying to do then perhaps the best thing to do is remain silent or pray for his ministry.
You got em fingered!
He talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk. If he believes all these things, which are pretty straightforward, why does he need to reference fifteen or more Bible versions in order to push his Purpose Driven agenda? Why does he see the need for seeker friendly preaching instead of just preaching what he believes, full stop? If he really believes that all men need the salvation offered by Jesus Christ, why does he spend time promoting his Purpose Driven growth methods in synagogues to help build them up, when he should be spending his time helping them to know Christ?
You don't know Warren's heart and you don't know the hearts of those who claim to have come to faith in Christ through Warren's ministry, but you're sure something is wrong, somewhere.
It seems to me you should heed Paul's words referenced above.
AH, Mr. Warren is at it again... pushing another so called social "gospel" message. He will preach anything just so long as it is NOT the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Let's see, he has preached the "seeker sensitive purpose driven" gospel... "Don't preach on sin or hell..., ALWAYS preach 'positive' messages'... you do not want to offend the sensabilities of the seekers."
The "man is responsibel for global warming, what would Jesus drive" gospel...
The "Evangelical fundamentalists pose the greatest threat to world peace" gospel...
Now he is on to his latest and greatest false gospel... his "Let's SLOW Aids through offering condoms and needle exchanges"... false gospel.
But what does it matter; this wolf in sheep’s clothing "pastors" a mega church and is one of the most popular guys out their, so he must be doing "god's work".
Matthew 7:21-22
Go figure... Rick Warren is from North America. How come his great influence for the Lord isn't bearing fruit?
He'll do his best to water down the message in those other areas too.
excellent - that's one I hadn't found yet. Goppachyderm, see the link at post #3.
no wonder North Korea was thinking of letting him in.
Only as far as the people have bought fluffy false teachings.
you may be referring to this article that came out in the frontpage of the Philippine Daily Inquirer: http://news.inq7.net/archive_article/index.php?ver=1&index=1&story_id=11254
See post 27.
A statement of faith means nothing if you don’t put it into practice. The Vineyard had a similar statement.
woof!…….. moooooo!……..meeooow!……..quack!quack!……..
It grieves many of us to see what Rick Warren is doing. People are being led down the wide path, over the cliff & straight to hell. We will pray. But we won’t be silent.
Because an actual translation won't allow his method to work. So he uses "The Message" instead.
If he really believes that all men need the salvation offered by Jesus Christ, why does he spend time promoting his Purpose Driven growth methods in synagogues to help build them up, when he should be spending his time helping them to know Christ?
You know the answer to that.
That's an interesting statement. I was actually unaware people other than God knew what others believed. Here are some notes from Warren's Purpose Driven Life book: click.
A statement of faith means nothing if you don’t put it into practice.
Now there's a statement with which I can heartily agree.
People are being led down the wide path, over the cliff & straight to hell.
There's another interesting statement. I was actually unaware people other than God knew who was going "straight to hell." For myself, I don't pretend to know the hearts of others.
We will pray. But we won’t be silent.
I like that and it encourages me greatly. I'd like to encourage you to read 1 Cor 3:1-17.
Appreciate it, but I've seen the book.
Here are some notes from an interview he gave.
"Now the word "fundamentalist" actually comes from a document in the 1920s called the Five Fundamentals of the Faith. And it is a very legalistic, narrow view of Christianity, and when I say there are very few fundamentalists, I mean in the sense that they are all actually called fundamentalist churches, and those would be quite small. There are no large ones…I am an evangelical. I'm not a member of the religious right and I'm not a fundamentalist ...Today there really aren't that many Fundamentalists left; I don't know if you know that or not, but they are such a minority; there aren't that many Fundamentalists left in America." Rick Warren, Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, May 23, 2005
Rick Warren does not teach the gospel of Jesus Christ. Anyone who thinks they can be saved by Warren's book is going to find they have a problem. My concern is for what's happening to the church & to the people who are following this drivel. That will not change.
I believe the notes I referenced are directly from the book and I don't see any theological problems with the notes. If you do, please click the FR link I provided, copy and paste any problems into a response and we can discuss it.
Rick Warren does not teach the gospel of Jesus Christ.
His statement of faith is solid but if you have examples of his teaching that are in disagreement with his statement of faith, then I'm more than interested to read what you have.
Anyone who thinks they can be saved by Warren's book is going to find they have a problem.
Anybody who thinks they are saved by anything other than grace through faith is going to find they have a problem. And Rick Warren teaches we are saved by grace through faith. If you have a quote from Warren or anybody that says they can be saved by Warren's book then please post it.
My concern is for what's happening to the church & to the people who are following this drivel. That will not change.
And it's good to be concerned. Post some direct examples of this drivel and we can discuss it.
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