Posted on 08/23/2006 6:14:12 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
If one believes that Christianity's purpose should be to create a better world, then this man is correct.
If you think Christianity's purpose should be to preach this Gospel to all the world as Christ said, then this man is helping Warren to redirect the Gospel away from it's true aim.
There is nothing wrong in helping the needy. We are directed to do so by God's Word. But, the first and greatest commandment is to love the Lord with all your heart, soul and mind. This MUST be first as no man is saved by his works lest he should boast that he has saved himself. Any diminishing of the ultimate necessity of accepting Christ's sacrifice on the Cross for salvation is clearly the way Satan works. He whispers into the hearts of men, "Be a good man and help others. That is all you need to do. God will not deny you salvation if you have done many good works. God is just, right?"
Warren does just this. His message is simple and direct: Do good works. Don't worry about spreading the Gospel. The Gospel will somehow be spread by your works as those receiving your charity will somehow understand your motivation. Sin is not a problem.
God says, "Faith without works is dead." But, He also says, "Without me you can do nothing."
Leaving the poor and destitute with goods and services without delivering everlasting life through Christ Jesus is not Christianity.
I agree! I'm so tired of this new movemant were we are being taught to just show love as Christ shows us love and this will get the other's into heaven. Christ tells us to tell them about Him as well as show them compassion and love. If we start leaving out the main ingrediant we are not helping these people learn about Christ.
I saw this show, and it is not clear to me what and how he will help Rwanda, but I thought that it would certainly be good if his congregation got involved. Would help them both. The amazing success of his book probably shames his critics, as above. I read Ashley's book on how she read it to her captor that night in Atlanta. Turns out she was a drug adict struggling to recover, and she turned a corner that night.
Right now I attend a church planted in America by the Anglican Diocese of Rwanda. No kidding. So, do you think that any Christians have been to Rwanda before Warren?
Personally, I would refuse to associate myself with such a title. Jesus Christ saved the world at the Cross of Calvary. No one else.
Plus, I thought Bono was the new savior of the world. I have heard Bono articulate his understanding of the Gospel, and frankly, he does a better job of preaching it than the likes of Warren and Joel Osteen, both of whom seem embarrassed by the main, overriding and unvarnished message of Jesus Christ.
I'm coming back to the heart of worship
And its all about You
All about You, Jesus
I'm sorry Lord for the thing I've made it
When its all about You
Its all about You.
That's how I see part of it. From what I understand, the Body of Christ is growing through Warren's ministry, and if true, that's something fellow believers should be glad to hear.
I believe that is exactly what Warren teaches in his Purpose Driven Life book. Here are some comments from a study guide. BTW, I believe the numbered superscripts are references to page numbers.
I hope that helps to better understand from where Warren is coming.You Were Made For A Mission
The Purpose Driven Life, Chapters 36 - 40
- You were made for a mission.
- If you are a part of God's family, your mission is mandatory. You are the only Christian some people will ever know, and your mission is to share Jesus with them. Your mission involves two great privileges:
- Working with God
- Representing God 283
- Telling others how they can have eternal life is the greatest thing you can do for them. 283
- Your mission has eternal significance. No pressure here, but the consequences of your mission will last forever. 284
Point to Ponder: I was made for a mission
Verse to Remember Matthew 28:19-20 (The Great Commission)
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.Question to Consider: What fears have kept me from fulfilling the mission God made me to accomplish? What keeps me from telling others the Good News?
- What are some typical fears and stereotypes that people have when they hear the word "evangelism"?
- God has given you a Life Message to share.
- Your life message includes your testimony. Your testimony is the story of how Christ has made a difference in your life. Consider writing a testimony for the small group.
Here's a small outline to use:
- What my life was like before I met Jesus
- How I realized I needed Jesus
- How I committed my life to Jesus
- The difference Jesus has made in my life
You should make a list of all the problems, circumstances, and crises that God has brought you through. Because everybody relates to different situations, be sensitive to what your friend will best relate to. 291
- You cannot keep yourself from talking about what you care most about. Jesus said [Matthew 12:34b NLT]: 293
For whatever is in your heart determines what you say.- Most important, you must learn to love lost people the way God does. 294
Question to Consider: Is anyone going to be in heaven because of you?
- The Great Commission is your commission. 297
- Worldly Christians look to God primarily for personal fulfullment... In contrast, world-class Christians know they were saved to serve and made for a mission. 297 The only barrier is the way we think. 299
- Shift from self-centered thinking to other-centered thinking
- Shift from local thinking to global thinking
- Shift from "here and now" thinking to eternal thinking
- Shift from thinking of excuses to thinking of creative ways to fulfill your commission.
- What keeps you from sharing the Good News with others?
- What do you feel might be a part of the Life Message that God has given you to share with the world?
- Share the name of an unbelieving friend that everyone in your group can begin praying for.
- What can our group do together to help fulfill the Great Commission?
- How has reading through this book together refocused or redirected your life purpose? What have been some of the most helpful insights to you?
- Who does God bring to mind with whom you could share the life-changing message of this book?
I think your comments are grudging.
I think your comments are grudging.
I think your comments are grudging.
But what is Warren's definition of the Gospel? Is it that you are a fallen sinner in need of a savior and Jesus is that one and only savior, or is it more along the lines of God loves you and thinks you are the greatest thing since sliced bread because you are so wonderful (no mention of sin and our true condition), and if you mentally assent to that notion and then do good works and get involved in churchianity, you are saved?
Thanks for the info but I have a whole lot more info I already have read about Warren that has made my opinion a long time ago.
I would imagine it's the biblical definition, quite similar to the first example you provided. I checked Saddleback's What we believe page which states the following under "About Salvation":
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God´s offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sin´s penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.They list references to the following:
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.Ephesians 2:8-9:
For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's giftnot from works, so that no one can boast.John 14:6
Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through MeAnd more. So it would appear Warren's definition of the Gospel is more along the lines of your first example.
Christ tells us to tell them about Him ...If we start leaving out the main ingredient...
And I was responding to your above comment. From Warren's book we see he does indeed teach others the importance about the Great Commission, and how it's the main ingredient.
Yes, but he talks more about how we are to serve other's and that is how I believe he thinks the great commission is all about.
He doesn't speak about how we are sinners and need to come to Christ. He leaves out key ingrediants out of Christianity. It is a seeker friendly style. There are many other things about Warren I don't like, but I've seen enough to know I think he is full of crap.
we didn't watch the FOX special on Mr. Warren because they bumped Oliver North's War Stories (which they often do)!!!
To a degree. I begrudge people who use the Gospel without preaching it.
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