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Sorry you are offended by what was one of the messages of Vatican II -that Catholics should begin to grow up and assume some responsibility for using their intelligence instead of behaving like little children ' Sister said" and "Father said". In a pilgrim church in the modern world we need honest adult discussion and adult solutions to problems. That is why we have more involvement of laity such as in parish councils etc. We are beyond the time when the Church demanded of their laity that they pray, pay, and obey.period. If we treat each other as children, or if church leaders treat their people as children or ask our people to behave like good little boys and girls then we are no more than those under the control of the taliban. We educated our people in our Catholic Schools and Universities to think, to be responsible, or in other words to "Grow Up".

Please post the relevant passages from Vatican Two which changed Christian Doctrine on the nature of the Hierarchial Constitution of the Church.

You appear to equate obedience with stupidity..Using their intelleigence instead of behaving like little children..." Please enlighten us

What exactly is YOUR "adult solution" to a particular, as yet unidentified by you, "problem?"

I am sure you must have something more than rank insults and references to the "taliban." So far, you are but the pot calling the kettle black.

I have asked you a few questions to which you have yet to respond. I don't know in what way that is an example of "adult behavior." Please enlighten me.

As the newcomer to this Religion Forum, you must become familiar with our guidelines for posting here.

For instance, we avoid flamewars by not allowing a conversation to shift from a discussion of the issues to making it personal. The remark "grow up" addressed to another poster here is making it personal because it presumes the poster's motives and/or is reading his mind.

To avoid future problems, read all of the guidelines on the above link.

FWIW, I looked up the diocese of SW Florida. The bishop, Lipscomb, is a classic "yes man" who wishes the whole controversy over Scripture and modern mores would just go away -- but he is standing with ECUSA and won't disapprove of any heretical notion approved by GC. As one of the posters on an orthodox Anglican website noted, if you're a "yes man" for ECUSA, Griswold is your PB, Schori is your Bishopess to be, you approve of divorced, adulterous, and homosexual priests and bishops, you deny Scripture, and you won't even affirm that Christ is the way, the truth and the life.

If that's the crowd you want to run with, please, go ahead and run with them. After all, they "grew up" and took charge of their church, unlike those authoritarian, mean old Catholics.

In the Vatican II documents, the role of the laity is to bring the Gospel message to the greater society. It is not to determine by majority vote the teachings of the deposit of faith, which constitute divine revelation through Scripture and Tradition and are expounded and interpreted by the authentic magisterium founded by Christ, i.e., the successor of Peter and the apostolic college of bishops in communion with him. If one wishes to rewrite the teachings of the faith, in a free society like ours, one should join or create another religion, and I think the modern American Episcopal Church might just fit the bill for these dissenters.