Posted on 08/16/2006 5:31:28 PM PDT by Coleus
Hindu “Mass” Sparks Violent Altercation in Toronto Churchyard
by Cornelia R. Ferreira
George’s eyes were glazing over. The “Indian Rite of Mass” was in full swing at St. Ann’s Church in Toronto on Sunday, July 2, 2006, and he felt he was being hypnotized by the endless monotonous chants and the flowing hand movements of the Indian dancing girls. Feeling nauseated, he left the front of the church and walked to the back to clear his mind. Along the way he noticed people frozen in the pews as though in a trance.
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Scenes from the Hindu "Mass" Above: Triple Arati Underneath: The "Our Father"
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George and some friends had learnt of this event at St. Ann’s through flyers that announced a “Roman Rite Liturgy of the Eucharist with religious cultural adaptations of India, approved by the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of India”. The Presider would be a certain Father Thomas D’Sa, Director of the National Biblical Catechetical Liturgical Centre (NBCLC) of the Indian Bishops’ Conference in Bangalore, India. The flyer pictured a “Jesus” dressed like a Hinduized Catholic priest, squatting in front of a large plate on which rested a huge “host” the size of an Indian unleavened bread called chappati.
George, unaware that the NBCLC was actually founded by the Indian bishops forty years ago in order to Hinduize the Church in India,[1] was scandalized by the idea of pagan rituals at a Catholic Mass. Complying with his Confirmation grace to defend the Faith, he and his friends went to St. Ann’s to educate and warn attendees that the service advertised in the flyer as the “Indian Order of Eucharistic Celebration” would be Hindu, not Indian. They intended to peacefully demonstrate be-forehand with placards proclaiming sentiments such as “Hinduism is not part of Catholicism,” and “Inculturation is the work of the devil”. They also wished to distribute copies of this writer’s article on the Hindu rituals used during Mother Teresa’s beatification Mass,[2] telling people to read it to understand what they would encounter. They did not have the opportunity, however, to carry out their plan until after the service, with unexpected results. But more on that later.
It should be noted that the event was advertised on the Archdiocese of Toronto website although there is no “Indian Rite” or “Ordo” that has official Vatican approval. Also, there is no exclusively “Indian” religion or culture, as many religions co-exist in that country. The “Mass” concocted in 1969 by the Indian bishops has always been a Hindu-Catholic syncretic hybrid, the version at St. Ann’s being an obvious adaptation for Western audiences.[3] As for dance during Mass, which has always been forbidden, even the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship, in 1975, said dance “desacralizes” the liturgy, “introducing an atmosphere of profanity”.[4]
The Voice of Dance
The service was a consciousness-raising workshop, with Fr. D’Sa explaining the significance of each dance and ritual. Though cloaked in Catholic terminology, the explanations made it clear that he would be conducting Hindu worship or puja, with the barest essentials of the Mass grafted onto it. (Indeed, as it turned out, missing would be the Creed, Lamb of God and Final Blessing.) In any case, Hinduized Catholics do not use the words “Lord,” “Jesus,” or “God” in the Catholic sense. Hinduized priests admit that people at a puja-Mass “are not praying to some Christian Deity, but to the Deity who is understood and experienced in different ways in different religious cultures and traditions,”[5] i.e., they pray to the pantheistic, universal, impersonal Absolute, the Hindu god. It was announced that Fr. D’Sa and his dance troupe were on a workshop tour. They had been in Europe and their next stop was the University of Winnipeg (“Celebrating Spirituality and Dance,” as advertised on Winnipeg’s Archdiocesan website).
A little background on the troupe is in order. Named “Nrityavani,” which means “the voice of dance,” it is an official organ of the Indian Bishops’ Conference. It was devised “to inculturate Catholicism through dance”[6] — in other words, to Hinduize Catholic liturgy and belief worldwide, through its adaptations of Indian classical dance, which is an expression of Hinduism. Directed by Fr. D’Sa, Nrityavani features Catholic dancers as young as nine, and at least one dancing priest.[7] Now, in February 2006, the occult humanitarian Art of Living Foundation, a United Nations non-governmental association, founded by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (not the sitarist), held an interfaith Jubilee celebration. It drew 2.5 million people to the “first ever ‘spiritual Olympics’,” who meditated together as a “One-World Family”. Dignitaries included the Archbishop of Bangalore and over 1,000 spiritual leaders, as well as World Bank executives, NASA engineers, movie stars, heads of government and Nobel Laureates. Former Dutch Prime Minister Ruud Lubbers was also present; he is a partner of Mikhail Gorbachev in promoting the Earth Charter, and also Hans Küng’s associate for the anti-Christian Global Ethic. In line with Shan-kar’s philosophy, Indian President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam suggested using music “as a binding force” for the world’s religions to promote an enlightened society and world harmony. Shankar also believes that “[e]ven inside the devil there is divinity, but it is sleeping. When it wakes up, the devil simply disappears”.[8]
On April 2, 2006, the Indian bishops honored Shankar’s Jubilee with a function at the NBCLC. The Indian website daijiworld.com com-mented:[9] “As the word ‘Catholic’ stands for a universal outlook encompassing everyone, NBCLC respects every religion”. The celebration theme was “Pilgrimage towards inner harmony” and “Living with people of other faiths”. Following NBCLC Director Father D’Sa’s welcome speech and Hindu devotional songs, Nrityavani dances depicted that “Wisdom is divine and the divine gifts are to be distributed freely”.
Homage to the Gods
Let us now return to the Hindu Ordo Mass at the century-old St. Ann’s Church in Toronto. Site of a Native Peoples’ Parish for two decades, it had already been desecrated by Canadian Indian rituals. Before the Mass, Father D’Sa announced he would be explaining the dance gestures and postures as used in “the Indian culture.” He said the Entrance Procession would be preceded by an opening dance honoring the Blessed Trinity. The three barefooted Nrityavani dancing girls positioned in front of the altar were introduced respectively as representing, by their gestures, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
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More Scenes from the Hindu "Mass" |
The Blessed Trinity Dance featured the chanting of the magic (occult) mantra OM as each “Person” of the Trinity came “on stage”. Hinduism teaches that we need to develop the inner consciousness of our divinity and our oneness with the Absolute. Mantra vibrations induce a trance (recall George’s unease) in which we can feel ourselves one with the Supreme Divinity. OM is the su-preme vibration as it means “I Am” (appropriating the name by which the true God revealed Himself!). It began creation and initiates awareness. For this reason, and because “Divinity alone can worship Divinity,” every puja must start with OM, to help us recognize our “I Am”-ness and oneness. Mantras and hand gestures also alleg-edly purify and divinize the body.[10]
OM also is the Hindu god Krishna, himself a reincarnation of the god Vishnu, who is the personification of the Absolute. It also has sexual and black magic meanings. Further, the trunk of the elephant-head god Ganesha or Ganapati also represents OM, so Ganesha is usually the first god worshiped in a traditional puja. In 1980, Wladislaw Cardinal Rubin, Prefect of the Congregation for Oriental Churches, forbade the use of OM because it is “an essential, integral part of Hindu worship”.[11] Since the actual sound of OM represents the Hindu Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva,[12] and since the whole ceremony was profane, we are led to believe that the Holy Trinity Dance at St. Ann’s honored the Hindu, not the Christian Trinity. After the Blessed Trinity Dance and[13] Entrance Procession, the priests were greeted with an arati of lights, after which Father D’Sa performed the same arati towards the people.
He had earlier told them, “We shall also welcome you with an Indian gesture called arati, with flowers and with a lamp”. As a dancer demonstrated how the arati plate is waved in three circles, Father D’Sa explained that the first circle stands for God who created us and the universe, the second circle for the universe, and the third for our fellow human beings. “In this way,” he said, “we are united with God, the universe, and with our fellow human beings in this one gesture called arati”. This statement clearly denoted the Hindu nature of the proceedings, as Hindus believe all men are united with the universal Absolute. Hinduism’s other deities are manifestations of the divine One. Father D’Sa was disingenuous in describing arati as a mere “welcoming gesture” instead of as the most important ritual in Hindu worship. Arati is defined as a temple ritual in which a fire or light on a plate is waved in a clockwise direction in front of a deity, an important person, or anything valuable. Light is worshiped as the Supreme Lord of inner consciousness. The clockwise direction symbolizes one’s divinity, revealed by the “flame” or light of knowledge. Fire and light themselves are worshiped. Indeed, the puja-Mass was advertised in the flyer as “Divya Yagam,” a term meaning “worship of the Light”. Arati is also done to appease the goddess Arathi and to counteract “the evil eye”. Further, the Hindu gods demand adoration with flowers, incense and light. It just so happens that the puja-Mass features a triple arati of fire, flowers and incense sticks later in the proceedings.
Father D’Sa was the main celebrant, and the pastor of St. Ann’s the concelebrant. Both priests sported a white dot between the eyebrows. There are several varieties and meanings for this dot, the first being that the wearer proclaims he is a Hindu. The location between the eyebrows is supposed to be a center of spiritual energy and a focus of meditation. The dot in that position represents the “third eye” of divine inner sight — i.e., of occult knowledge and abilities — and awareness of unity with the universe, which Hindus seek to awaken. Focusing on the god within, the dot is a symbol of the worship of the intellect.[14] Before the washing of the hands, Father D’Sa performed a superstitious ritual, offering blue and red flowers to the “eight directions of the world”. He said the flowers symbolized those present who were from different cultures and traditions, hoping for unity. However, in the regular Hindu ritual, flowers are offered to the gods of the eight directions, honoring the eight aspects of the god Shiva. The ritual is also done to obtain the protection of the god who rules a particular eighth section of the universe. Another reason for this puja is that one doesn’t know from which direction the Absolute Lord will come.[15] A different god, seemingly chosen according to need, is invoked for each direction. Father D’Sa himself chanted eight names as he touched the flowers to his forehead, nose and chest, then carefully arranged them on the altar at the compass points surrounding the host and chalices.
After the Great Amen, the dancing girls performed a triple arati of flowers, fire and incense to the accompaniment of more pagan chants whilst the celebrants held aloft the consecrated Sacred Species. Father D’Sa announced that this blasphemy was “the climactic part of our Eucharistic Prayer”. At the Kiss of Peace, the congregation was told to fold their hands and do the Indian greeting of namaste to their neighbors. Namaste means “the god in me honors the god in you”. It awakens the third eye of the greeter to worship the god in the greeted.[16]
Another abomination took place at the Our Father. Instead of reciting the prayer together as a congregation, the people were asked to sit down while the girls launched into another interpretive dance number. Most gestures were completely un-fathomable, with the exception of receiving bread and forgiving trespasses (a shove, hurt feelings, forgiveness, hugs all around). The musical accompaniment was a Hare Krishna chant! Father D’Sa intoned the words “Our Father” four times. The response each time was the mantra “Hare Krishna”; towards the end of the prayer, the mantra was repeated over and over. Krishna, the reincarnation of Vishnu, who represents the Absolute Lord, is said to have se-duced 16,000 women, and a whole occult, erotic literature has been developed around this aspect of Krishna.[17] The words “Hare Krishna” mean “O energy of the Lord (Hare), O Lord (Krishna), please engage me in your service!” This energy is actually the goddess Radha, Krishna’s chief consort, who “helps the de-votee achieve the grace of the supreme Father,” Krishna, who reveals himself to the sincere devotee. The mantra “Hare Krish-na” is thus supposed to awaken spiritual consciousness.[18]
Replacing the Final Blessing, the Dance of the Last Supper was performed to illustrate the “social dimension” that should result from celebrating the Eucharist. The portrayal of “what we must do when we go out into the world” included the washing of the feet and another depiction of forgiveness. Finally came the mutual gestures of appreciation between the two priests. The pastor announced a second collection to defray the touring expenses of the troupe. In gratitude for his hosting of the “Indian Order of the Eucharist,” the pastor was presented with a garland of flowers and a large picture of “Jesus as an Indian [i.e., Hindu] guru, Jesus in contemplation”.
The only applause came at the end of this presentation, and it seemed “led” and rather restrained. The absence of clapping by a liberal congregation was most unusual. Did the rituals engender a trance state, as intended, and as George had observed? Not everyone was hypnotized, however. Some people walked out during the service and others did not receive Communion.
All Hell Breaks Loose
Throughout the blasphemous puja-Mass, George’s friends Joan and Rose sat at the back, praying Rosaries, Litanies and other prayers. They spoke audibly, but quietly, “so that people would know something was wrong.” Right after the service, they started passing out copies of the Mother Teresa article to people inside the church. A Sister of St. Joseph (in plainclothes) testily enquired, “Did you get Father’s permission?” “We don’t need Father’s permission,” they replied. The three kept handing out copies, urging people, “Read this. It explains everything that took place just now in this church.”
Standing on the front steps, they continued, “The church has been desecrated. The Body and Blood of Our Lord have been desecrated. Don’t go to this church any more!” At times they added, “The two priests are going to hell because of this!” Some people accepted the articles, others didn’t. One woman asked for a bunch and started distributing them herself. The nun tried frantically to stop the demonstrators. “Get off the property! Get off the property!” she yelled. She ordered people not to take the article. “They don’t have Father’s permission. They are invading our church. They are strangers come to cause trouble.” She even snatched articles from parishioners’ hands and ripped them up. People started hustling Rose and George down the steps. Suddenly, alerted by the furious nun, the pastor, still in his vestments (and garland), emerged and rushed wildly towards them. “Keep off the church property!” he shouted, trying to choke Rose.
“I saw the devil in his eyes,” she recalled.
George rushed to her defense, putting himself between the two. “Get your hands off her!” he shouted. “What do you think you’re doing, Father? Why are you picking on a woman? Pick on someone your own size!” (Rose is a diminutive 110 pounds, whilst both men are sturdily built, around 200 pounds.) The priest knocked him aside and tried again to throttle Rose, so George intervened again. The priest was seen to punch and kick him, and George had to shove him away in self-defense. At some point the pastor was also seen ripping up Mother Teresa articles. Then he grabbed the bag of rolled-up placards Rose was holding and started shredding them to pieces. George retrieved the bag. Several times the trio accused the priest of being a wolf in sheep’s clothing. About 50 church attendees were milling around, some seemingly stunned by the sight of their pastor attacking a woman and initiating a brawl. Several by-standers, however, entered the fray on the side of the priest, including one elderly woman who used her motorized wheelchair as a weapon. She ran over Rose’s foot, injuring it, and tried the same with George. Many demanded to know who they were and from which organization they had come. “We are Roman Catholics just like you. We’re not from any organization,” they replied.
One man accused them of not following Vatican II.
Finally, indicating with a contemptuous hand movement that the trio were crazy, the pastor returned to the church. Ironically, he seemed to have forgotten the message of universal love and harmony pervading the Hinduized service. For her own part, Rose thought only of the sacrileges, desecrations, and blindness of those involved. “It’s sad,” she said, reacting to the day’s events. “It’s very, very sad.”
Notes:
1. This is well documented in Victor J.F. Kulanday, The Paganization of the Church in India, 2d rev. ed. (San Thome, Madras: 1988).
2. Cornelia R. Ferreira, “Mother Teresa ‘Beatified’ with Idolatrous Rites,” Catholic Family News, January 2004 on the web at www.cfnews.org/beatipagan.htm (also available as a reprint #902 for $2.50US).
3. The original version is described in Kulanday’s book.
4. Ferreira, ibid.
5. India: The Lotus and the Cross, television documentary produced by Vishnu and Rita Mathur, SilverTouch Productions [Toronto], 2004.
6. Father Aidan Turner, “Man of Vision Bring [sic] Indian Dancers to Mass,” in “Diocesan News,” The Voice, www.thevoiceonline.org, August 2005.
7. Ibid.; www.st-augustines-high.lancsngfl.ac.uk/index.html (click on News, “Recent Events, “Nrityavani, June 1, 2005). The website lauds the troupe for spreading the Gospels “via Asian Dance,” thus disguising its Hindu-evangelizing nature even further.
8. “Silver Jubilee 2006,” www.artofliving.org.
9. Jessie Rodrigues, “Bangalore: NBCLC Honours Art of Living Guru Sri Sri Ravi Shankar”.
10. Swami Bhajanananda Saraswati and Brahmachari Parameshwara, The Art of Seeing God,” www.kalimandir.org/homepage.asp (click on “library”); Ashok Basargekar, “Perceiving the True Identity of the Absolute,” www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/8891/pooja.txt ; “Om: Symbol of the Absolute,” www.hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa022200.htm.
11. Ferreira, ibid.; “Attributes of Ganesha,” www.emplenet.com/beliefs/whoisganesha.htm
12. John B. Noss, Man’s Religions, 3d ed. (New York: The Macmillan Company, 1963), p. 279; Kulanday, pp. 82-83, 151.
13. Ferreira, ibid.
14. Articles on the dot can be found at www.experiencefestival.com/a/Hinduism/id/51452 ;
http://hindunet.org/srh_home/1996_9/msg00176.html ; www.jansarisevak.org.uk/HinduCulture.html ; and
www.experiencefestival.com/third_eye_chakra
15. “Upachara: Offerings,” in “Shri Shri Shiva Mahadeva,” www.religiousworlds.com/mandalam/shiva.htm; Jayaram V., “Ashtadikpalas: The Eight Vedic Gods,” www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/dikpalas.asp ; “Perceiving the True Identity”.
16. See www.experiencefestival.com/namaste .
17. Noss, pp. 287, 289-90.
18. “Maha-mantra,” www.krishna.com/main.php?id=620 ; A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, “Chanting Hare Krishna,” www.harekrishnatemple.com/bhakta/chapter7.html ; “Hare Krishna …,” www.chanting.krishna.org/Articles/2003/04/009.html ; Noss, pp. 289-290. Note: The mantra chanted at the Our Father was not the version popularized by the Hare Krishna Movement.
Far from denying the Deity of Jesus, I'm the one who insists that He is God and that as God He can save whomever he wants however he wants, whether or not the sinner in question has come forward to the altar as the organ wheezes out another weepy rendition of "Just As I Am". I'm the one who insists that God has pity on all humanity, and that His Divine Mercy extends to all humanity, not just the ones lucky enough to live in a country where Sunday School is legal. (St. Peter looks up from the Big Book and says, "So you were born in Saudi Arabia, huh? Well, sorry -- that's no excuse. Goodbye." With a flick of his saintly wrist, the trap door opens beneath the hapless Arab.) And I'm the one who maintains that Our Lady, the Blessed Virgin Mary, bore a Man who was God -- not 50% God, 75% God, or 99 and 44/100ths% God, but 100% God, which was the point of my original post.
Let's say the path is very broad and one can find a place to start the spiritual journey from where ever one is. It's a very long topic, I have an article in the works to post on FR one of these days, I hope in a few weeks.
This is from Bengalore, but there IS a local Christian church in Kerala that dates back years... St Thomas Christians The Catholic view of mixing (AKA "Baptizing") non Christian elements in culture and redesigning them to point to Christ is an ongoing argument that goes back to the time of the Apostles (see Paul saying we should not argue about such things, and the discussion about gentiles in Acts).
If we want to be "pure" we'd have to get rid of Christmas, Christmas trees, Easter eggs, Processions, incense, and go back to dietary laws.
But as Paul says if it helps you praise God, it's okay. If it offends you, don't do it. But don't argue about it...he was discussing eating meat sold at temple butcheries (i.e. used in temple sacrifices) and arguments over the Sabbath and feast days (something that Catholics do but others like Seventh day Adventist disagree).
Usually the Catholics allow such things to go on unless they start destroying faith. This one sounds like it went "too far", but one would have to be a Hindu convert to say yes or no...
I am struck with the similarity of Filipino Catholicism with Thai Buddhism and Chinese pagan cultures...but then I am not sure the "pure" Protestantism here, with it's emphasis on honesty, hard work and making money, but not mercy toward the poor, is any closer to Jesus than the easy going Catholics who fiesta, give food to all at their celebrations, and overlook petty thievery by their very poor staff...
UNLESS you are of the opinion that any mention of the RC hierarchy in other than the most obsequious of terms is criticism. In that case it would be difficult to find many Catholics who would qualify as other than "Catholic bashers".
BTW, I had a very difficult time finding that Papal decree I posted. Not used to digging up that stuff, but I knew there was an ongoing "debate" regarding the Church in India (in whatever form it takes), and one or the other Pope had stepped in to prevent the mistakes made by Ricci from being made again.
BTW, this Ricci is the fellow who raised the art of the Memory Palace to a high art. I enjoyed the book about him.
That's the problem, every thread about Catholics turns into a debate about dogma.
Like I said, I'll stick with the Baptists. They are truly Christlike. All of my friends from that church have asked me questions about my faith, but never questioned it.
That is the difference.
Gotta' tell you, much as I like my Hindu friends, when they get to the burnt offering, I don't do that and end up standing at the back of the room with the Moslems.
Now that's a strange feeling.
Likely it's one of the infamous eco-nuns from the Sisters of St. Joseph up on Bayview Avenue. They do frequent this out-of-control parish. Here's one of their events:
"Canticle to the Cosmos"
Explore the exciting new story of the Universe with a feeling for its sacred nature. (your new is our OLD sister...Pagan alert!)
"Set up a study group on ecology in your church" (A Pastoral Letter on the Christian Ecological Imperative, Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops, October, 2003)
Where: At St. Ann's Parish Rectory, 120 First Avenue (Broadview and Gerrard)
To register contact Sister Janet Fraser, jfraser@csj-to.ca
4,5,11, 24... all posts that could be suggestive of ridicule. I say 'could be suggestive' so Relig Mod doesn't slap me for straying outside of very narrow boundaries of correct speech for Catholics. The same posters can be found mocking/ridiculing on other threads.
There - "correct" enough for you?
Can't have any suggesting now, can we? As one of those posters (#4 is mine), I suggest you get to know me a little better before you slander me any further. I also suggest you ping me the next time you talk about me, regardless of any slander therein.
It should be, but the Church is currently in the worst crisis it has ever gone through since the time of St. Athanasius and the Arian Heresy. The Church survived that one, it will survive this too, but like in the Arian crisis, there has been and will continue to be a high soul casualty rate before it is over.
Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us.
Here's what the Carechism says:
1058 The Church prays that no one should be lost: "Lord, let me never be parted from you." If it is true that no one can save himself, it is also true that God "desires all men to be saved" (1 Tim 2:4), and that for him "all things are possible" (Mt 19:26).
1281 Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, can be saved even if they have not been baptized (cf. LG 16).
2005 Since it belongs to the supernatural order, grace escapes our experience and cannot be known except by faith. We cannot therefore rely on our feelings or our works to conclude that we are justified and saved. However, according to the Lord's words "Thus you will know them by their fruits"- reflection on God's blessings in our life and in the lives of the saints offers us a guarantee that grace is at work in us and spurs us on to an ever greater faith and an attitude of trustful poverty.
A pleasing illustration of this attitude is found in the reply of St. Joan of Arc to a question posed as a trap by her ecclesiastical judges: "Asked if she knew that she was in God's grace, she replied: 'If I am not, may it please God to put me in it; if I am, may it please God to keep me there.'"
Assuming that you have a sincere interest in this question, the catechism citations can be read in context here:
http://ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=can+be+saved&s=SS
Back to the Hindu-influenced Catholic Liturgy in Tronta: I suppose the questions should be: (1) Are false gods being worshipped? (2) Are false doctrines being taught? and (3) Is this being conducted in knowing defiance of binding liturgical norms?
If the answers are NO, NO, and NO, they're probably on safe ground.
I say "probably" because there can still be a problem here, even if there are no overt deliberate violations of Christian doctrine and discipline, if things are scandalously ambiguous. I have enough experience with feminist Catholics flirting with apostasy, to know that a finely-crafted ambiguity can be part of a very dangerous program.
Well, Namaste. Pax vobiscum. And Shalom.
We had a Sikh temple up the road have a regular battle with blood letting several years back. They were breaking into two congregations ~ didn't plan on it, but it happened.
RCs are hardly violent anymore, but sometimes the invective tossed around is the sort you expect in the more robust groups who regularly experience this sort of thing.
BTW, thanks for the opportunity to once again help Freepers learn this exceedingly useful word. There are so terribly many times it applies to some of the "new stuff" peddled Christians.
Watch out! What are your girls doing going to a Baptist VBS anyway? Why not let them go to a Catholic one? Of course they welcomed them with open arms, next they'll be trying to pull them out of the Church.
Perhaps your Baptists friends are okay, but Baptists are notoriously anti-Catholic. Have you ever visited Baptists websites? Did you grow up in the South like I did and have Baptists tell you all the time you were going to Hell just because you were Catholic?
Some of them here on FR exhibit anti-Catholicism.
They send missionaries into predominantly Catholic countries trying to steal people out of the Catholic faith.
They spread anti-Catholic materials all over the internet. Dr. John Ankerberg, Dr. John Weldon and David Cloud are well known Baptists that spend a great deal of time and energy running down the Catholic Church.
I don't know what Baptist sect you are dealing with, perhaps they are American Baptists which tend to be more liberal, but the majority of Baptists would MOST definitely question your faith and try to get you out of it.
>>I don't know what Baptist sect you are dealing with, perhaps they are American Baptists which tend to be more liberal, but the majority of Baptists would MOST definitely question your faith and try to get you out of it.<<
They haven't yet and won't do it even if they tried.
I'm very comfortable with my faith.
And at least they are not so rude and to be openly critical.
Unlike some FReepers.
They did Catholic VBS. Really Catholic, not the same one that the progressive Catholic churches and the Protestant churches are doing. Starts with the "Our Father", "Hail Mary" and "Glory Be" every session.
We were invited and I stayed. They are may be looking to change us, but they didn't question at all and didn't push dogma. I stayed because I didn't want that. But my girls were invited by fellow GS and good friends. We went one day and the girls had a blast.
I am strong enough in my religion, as are my children, wearing their miraculous metals, that having a good time with children from another religion will not harm them. Afterall, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
And BTW, I'm a traditional Catholic. They couldn't get me to change at all.
Here it is. First one on the list:
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