Posted on 08/13/2006 7:31:18 AM PDT by Gamecock
As God wills.
I think I made some decent points in my post. If you think there are parts of it or the whole thing that I can be taken to task on, then by all means let me know. But I don't think a fair reading of it could lead anyone to the conclusion you've drawn. And for whatever it's worth, which is probably nothing, I admire single people (such as myself) who do their best to remain chaste.
A Priestly Vocation is a call from God. The God/man Jesus established His Church upon Peter and gave hin the Keys. The Keys include the authority to regulate Discipline. Clerical Celibacy is a Discipline of Apostolic Origins.
That being said, I thought I asked you a long time ago not to post to me, and I thought you said you would honor that. Are you a man of your word, or not?
*I can't say I recall that. However, now that you bring it to my atgtention, I am happy to say I am a man. A man who does not let go unchallenged criticisms of my Church.
If you were under the false impression I would sit idly by while you launch what I consider unfair criticism of my Church, then you are mistaken.
Please go away, and stay away.
Correction to last post. My post wasn't called an attack on the Church, but unfair criticism instead.
Canon Law regulates the priest's ability to function as a priest. No priest may set up shop wherever he pleases.
The first statement seems to be a divine right granted by God. The second statement seems to be bureacracy. Didn't God know that these priests would choose to leave the priesthood 15 years later? It would seem to me that if a man is ordained by God, then transubstantiation of the Eucharist would still occur with or without regulations.
I believe that is the claim of the Rent-A-Priest. They may have given up their cleric position, but they still can function as priests since they've been ordained by God.
*Read more carefully. I did not say it was an atack.
In case you didn't know, one of the rules of the forum is you must honor one's request that he or she not be posted to.
*I did not know that. Please provide me a link to that rule
Again, bornacatholic, do not post to me. The next time you do, I'll report it as abuse, which is something I've never done.
*I have a natural right to respond to anyone who posts to me. If the rule you say exists, and I am made aware of it, I'll follow it. I am not an advocate of antinomianism
Please go away, and stay away.
*Continuing to post to me and thinking I won't respond makes sense to you?
*Is the only rule I could find applicable to our exchange this morning.
Sister, if you find any "rule" you claim exists...In case you didn't know, one of the rules of the forum is you must honor one's request that he or she not be posted to please send it to me.
I have been reading the forum rules threads from the religion mod and I find no such rule in existence.
Have a pleasant day
18 "Thou art Peter"... As St. Peter, by divine revelation, here made a solemn profession of his faith of the divinity of Christ; so in recompense of this faith and profession, our Lord here declares to him the dignity to which he is pleased to raise him: viz., that he to whom he had already given the name of Peter, signifying a rock, St. John 1. 42, should be a rock indeed, of invincible strength, for the support of the building of the church; in which building he should be, next to Christ himself, the chief foundation stone, in quality of chief pastor, ruler, and governor; and should have accordingly all fulness of ecclesiastical power, signified by the keys of the kingdom of heaven.
18 "Upon this rock"... The words of Christ to Peter, spoken in the vulgar language of the Jews which our Lord made use of, were the same as if he had said in English, Thou art a Rock, and upon this rock I will build my church. So that, by the plain course of the words, Peter is here declared to be the rock, upon which the church was to be built: Christ himself being both the principal foundation and founder of the same. Where also note, that Christ, by building his house, that is, his church, upon a rock, has thereby secured it against all storms and floods, like the wise builder, St. Matt. 7. 24, 25.
18 "The gates of hell"... That is, the powers of darkness, and whatever Satan can do, either by himself, or his agents. For as the church is here likened to a house, or fortress, built on a rock; so the adverse powers are likened to a contrary house or fortress, the gates of which, that is, the whole strength, and all the efforts it can make, will never be able to prevail over the city or church of Christ. By this promise we are fully assured, that neither idolatry, heresy, nor any pernicious error whatsoever shall at any time prevail over the church of Christ.
19 "Loose upon earth"... The loosing the bands of temporal punishments due to sins, is called an indulgence; the power of which is here granted.
*Brother, Harley. We Catholics understand the words of Our Lord and Saviour to mean the Christian Hierarchy has Divinely-Constitued Authority to establish order,rules,discipline, punishments for delicts, heresies, apostasy etc etc etc to serve His Church on Earth
I believe this is the point of the Rent-A-Priests. They see their authority coming from Roman Catholic theology-not Roman Catholic bureaucracy.
Well, "The Keys" include the authority to regulate who will and won't be priests, who can and can't offer Mass in a particular Diocese, who is and isn't a priest in good standing. Anything else is antinomianism, imo.
The rent-priests used to subscribe to such Divinely-Constituted authority and they used to be obedient to it. Recall the Evangelical council to obedience ?
One characteristic of a man stricken by Pride is his refusal to be obedient to legitimate authority. Many reasons can be advanced to rationalise one's refusal to obey, but one favorite one is to link one's will with God.
In disobeying Divinely-Constituted authority, I am really obeying God.
Luther-lite is unattractive. I wish they's just say "I stand outside the church." However, it takes a man to say that.
915 Christ proposes the evangelical counsels, in their great variety, to every disciple. The perfection of charity, to which all the faithful are called, entails for those who freely follow the call to consecrated life the obligation of practicing chastity in celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom, poverty and obedience. It is the profession of these counsels, within a permanent state of life recognized by the Church, that characterizes the life consecrated to God.454
916 The state of consecrated life is thus one way of experiencing a "more intimate" consecration, rooted in Baptism and dedicated totally to God.455 In the consecrated life, Christ's faithful, moved by the Holy Spirit, propose to follow Christ more nearly, to give themselves to God who is loved above all and, pursuing the perfection of charity in the service of the Kingdom, to signify and proclaim in the Church the glory of the world to come.
Besides the excellent points you have already raised Bornacatholic, I would also add that these men have broken their vows before God that they swore they would uphold to serve God and the Church.
Unfortunately, many of the American Catholic seminaries were taken over by homosexuals from the 1960s on. So right here is where the problem is most acute, not in the Third World. If allowing married men to become priests would help to keep this cancer from propagating within the Church by allowing far more men who love the Church and God to become priests, then on balance I think it would be...frankly, I see no harm to the Catholic Church of doing what the Orthodox Church does on this issue (one area where it is the Orthodox, not the Catholic, Church that is closer to the tradition of the early church....)
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