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To: NYer
"He appointed a successor, Peter. Christ instructed the Church to preach everything he taught (Matt. 28:19–20) and promised the protection of the Holy Spirit to "guide you into all the truth" (John 16:13). That mandate and that promise guarantee the Church will never fall away from his teachings (Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15), even if individual Catholics might."


No Christ did NOT appoint ANY successor. Yes, the Holy Spirit will guide you IF you pray to Christ.

Matthew 28:19-20

[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

[20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

John 16:13

13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


Yes, as Christians we are to preach what HE taught not this nonsense about succession or Mary etc. since it is NOT Biblical and NOT what HE taught.

"That mandate and that promise guarantee the Church will never fall away from his teachings (Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15), even if individual Catholics might."

That "mandate"? That is simply a command for ALL who believe to do that. That is NOT directed at ANY particular church.

Matthew 16:18

[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Not this AGAIN! How many times must anyone tell you how WRONG this is that Peter is some kind of a successor?

The CHURCH is built on CHRIST, NOT PETER!

Is Christ the liar here? I don't think so ... .

1 Corth. 3:11

[11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.


Of all disciples I always find it amusing that Peter is the one for you, as a Catholic. He was MARRIED. Peter was far from "infallible". Even Paul had to rebuke Peter in his views of the Christian life. Peter was NOT "straightforward about the truth of the Gospel"

Gal. 2:14

[14] But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Hardly an "infallible" person. Certainly NOT someone to "imitate" or "follow". Another reason WHY Christ is the ONLY ONE to follow and imitate.

The "church", which is the body of believers, "is built on the foundation of the apostleS and prophetS" doctrine. Did you catch that S, as in PLURAL; not SINGULAR as only in Peter?

Eph. 2:20

[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

There is NO indication anywhere, that Peter was the head of anything. If anything Paul had a more DOMINAT role and voice in the Bible. Even Paul, who is certainly more of a DOMINANT role in preaching and converting didn't refer to Peter as a "pillar" because he was NOT a pillar.

Instead Paul spoke of:

Gal. 2:9

[9] And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.


Even Peter admitted that CHRIST is the chief "cornerstone" in:

1 Peter 2:6-7

[6] Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

[7] Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

Even Paul notes that the OTHER apostles are ALL part of the "foundation" but NOT the chief cornerstone.

Eph. 2:20

[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

As for "churches" not falling away ... LOL!!! When the "church" is NOT based on what the Bible states, it has already "fallen away" since it no longer depends on the Bible and what God clearly states. The Holy Spirit is NOT present among those who do NOT follow the teachings of Christ.

Here's where you are:

2Tim.4:3

[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

SO many times people have tried to get through to you. Verse after verse after verse has been posted to you and others. Let there be no doubt. The truth is now known to you - straight from the Bible. If you insist on believing what fallible people want you to believe because their control freaks and have a seriously disturbing overgrown ego and pride - that's up to you. Just know what you are doing in accepting this unBiblical nonsense.

I won't be responding further to this post. There is more to say about your false teachings but enough has been said where a rational person would really start reading the Bible for what it clearly states.

You really need to read the Bible fro what it says and not cherry pick verses, out of context to suit Catholicism.
10 posted on 08/10/2006 3:07:23 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: nmh
No Christ did NOT appoint ANY successor. Yes, the Holy Spirit will guide you IF you pray to Christ.

Dear friend in Christ,

We've been down this road before but I am more than willing to traverse it with you. Jesus, knowing that He could not remain on earth forever, did not want to leave us orphans, so he established the role of a successor to carry on the faith and proclaim it to the entire world.

Matt. 10:1,40 - Jesus declares to His apostles, "he who receives you, receives Me, and he who rejects you, rejects Me and the One who sent Me." Jesus freely gives His authority to the apostles in order for them to effectively convert the world.

John 16:14-15 - what the Father has, the Son has, and the Son gives it to the apostles. The authority is not lessened or mitigated.

Acts 20:28 - the apostles are shepherds and guardians appointed by the Holy Spirit / 1 Peter 2:25 - Jesus is the Shepherd and Guardian. The apostles, by the power of the Spirit, share Christ's ministry and authority.

SO many times people have tried to get through to you. Verse after verse after verse has been posted to you and others. Let there be no doubt. The truth is now known to you - straight from the Bible.

And it is given back to you, as well, verse by verse.

15 posted on 08/10/2006 5:34:10 PM PDT by NYer
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To: nmh

Great post, brother. All you can do is preach the truth in love, and pray that they may be given eyes to see.


27 posted on 08/10/2006 9:44:42 PM PDT by conservatative strategery
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To: nmh

**You really need to read the Bible fro what it says and not cherry pick verses, out of context to suit Catholicism.**

But the Bible was written by the Jews and the early Catholics. Those celebrating the Holy Eucharist as Christ had instructed them to do "in memory of me" at the Last Supper.

You need to get those facts straight first. Who is giving you this Catholic bashing stuff, anyway?


35 posted on 08/10/2006 11:10:10 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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