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To: jo kus
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and [for] all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour" 1 Tim 2:1-3

I am confused. To me the scripture you quoted is saying that WE should pray, intercede etc for all men, give thanks etc. I don't see that someone in Heaven is being spoken of here. Am I missing something?

81 posted on 08/11/2006 9:51:59 PM PDT by ladyinred (Thank God the Brits don't have a New York Times!)
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To: ladyinred

>>I am confused. To me the scripture you quoted is saying that WE should pray, intercede etc for all men, give thanks etc. I don't see that someone in Heaven is being spoken of here. Am I missing something?<<

Your interpretation is correct... However, Catholic doctrine has quite a different worldview when it comes to theology... Which at best results in illogical conclusions... And at its worst is downright blasphemous...


84 posted on 08/11/2006 10:40:25 PM PDT by politicallyincarrect ((Darwinism is the relgion of atheists))
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To: ladyinred
I am confused. To me the scripture you quoted is saying that WE should pray, intercede etc for all men, give thanks etc. I don't see that someone in Heaven is being spoken of here. Am I missing something?

I cited 1 Tim 2:1-3 to show that others can intercede for men. The problem presented was that only Jesus Christ is the Mediator. The gentlemen I was speaking with told me that because Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man, then no one else can "mediate". I pointed to the context of 1 Tim 2:5, which the immediately preceding verses show St. Paul telling Timothy that Christians ARE to intercede for men. Thus, this goes against the idea that Jesus is the only interceder for men.

When St. Paul says Jesus is the Mediator between God and man, he means that ONLY CHRIST is both God and Man. He shares both natures. Thus, He knows what men have gone through, He has suffered and has undergone trials. God has not experienced that before the Incarnation, being impassible. As the letter to the Hebrews notes, Jesus is our representative before God in the "Holy of Holies".

My comments had nothing to do with heavenly intercessors. However, if you look to the Book of Revelation, you will find the saints in heaven praying for our sake. Death will not separate us from the love of Christ, says St. Paul. As a result, the dead saints will be more alive in Christ than they are here on earth (again, St. Paul says the "dead" saints are not dead in spirit) - and the prayers of a righteous man are truly efficacious, says St. James. Thus, the Scriptures imply that it is a pious and righteous thing to ask for the prayers of other Christians - some of which may be in heaven. We note this from the earliest Christian practices through the study of archaeology. THEY understood that prayers to the "dead" saints were efficacious - and so do we, as Christianity is a revealed religion.

Regards

89 posted on 08/12/2006 9:49:52 AM PDT by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Crysostom - Phil 2:8)
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