Posted on 08/07/2006 8:00:19 AM PDT by NYer
Eileen DiFranco sang the hymns, prayed and took Communion as she had done at countless other Catholic Masses.
But yesterday, for the first time, she led the service as an ordained priest - and received a warm reception from hundreds of Catholics and others.
"Nothing is impossible with our God," she told a congregation at the First United Methodist Church of Germantown. "Not even a woman priest."
Applause rippled across the steamy sanctuary, where many fanned themselves with programs titled: "First Mass. Eileen DiFranco."
DiFranco, 54, of Mount Airy, had participated in a July 31 ceremony that organizers say made her among the first women to be ordained in the United States by the organization Roman Catholic Womenpriests.
Roman Catholic dioceses in the country, including the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, and the U.S. Conference of Bishops have pronounced the ordination invalid, saying church law allows only men to become priests.
"I feel I have been called out by my community to do this," DiFranco said in an interview. "It has been a nudging along the way by God and by people who know me."
In her homily, DiFranco said people today sometimes found "very little that is meaningful in the teachings of the church about Jesus." Churches that were full two generations ago, she said, "are emptying out, and parishes are closing... .
"Some think that a return to those pietistic days of yesteryear, where the laity knew its place and only the priests knew and spoke the words of God, will repopulate the seminaries and repack the pews."
But DiFranco said people were looking for more from the church. "The big issues that might have brought some of you here today remain unaddressed, untackled, unmentionable," she said.
A nurse at Roxborough High School, DiFranco has been an active member of the Church of the Beatitudes, a congregation of about 20 people in the Old Catholic community. The group rents space from Garden United Methodist Church in Lansdowne.
But DiFranco said she had felt led to hold her first Mass at the church in Germantown.
Twenty-three years ago yesterday, on the anniversary of the Hiroshima bombing, she had gone to a peace rally in King of Prussia and was impressed by the warm greetings of a group of people there.
Members of the First United Methodist Church of Germantown were hugging and kissing one another - and she remembered wanting to be part of a church like that.
On another Hiroshima anniversary, DiFranco celebrated her first Mass at the church, speaking of peace, tolerance and God's love.
"We want to support Eileen and this movement" toward the ordination of women, said Carl Yusavitz, 61, a Mount Airy resident who attends St. Vincent's Catholic Church in Germantown.
"I consider Eileen a Catholic and a priest," he said. "Her validity is based on 'By their fruits, you will know them.' Eileen has wonderful fruits."
DiFranco's son, Ben, 17, who attends La Salle College High School in Wyndmoor, said his mother's service as a priest "is going to be a catalyst for women being ordained in the church."
"A couple of my friends say she is not a priest, that her ordination was not valid," said Ben DiFranco, who assisted his mother at the altar during the Mass. "But I also have friends who are really for it."
The Rev. Bernie Callahan of the Church of the Beatitudes said DiFranco's ordination and first Mass were a sign that "paths are being opened to Catholic women."
"This has happened at a grassroots level, and those things tend to be unstoppable," said Callahan, adding that DiFranco would be a regular celebrant at his church.
Janice Sevre-Duszynska, a Lexington, Ky., resident who was ordained a deacon during the July 31 ceremony, said DiFranco's priestly work was needed.
"We need women's interpretation of the Gospel," said Sevre-Duszynska, who attended DiFranco's Mass. "Most of the poor of the world are women and children. Where are their voices?"
Toward the end of her homily, DiFranco told the congregation that "in Jesus, there was never a disconnect... . The words excommunication and intrinsically disordered would not have been part of Jesus' vocabulary."
The congregation applauded and later greeted her and her husband, Larry, at the entrance to the church.
"It was wonderful," DiFranco said of the Mass. "I felt so lifted up."
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just accurate if possible. I went over to the Vatican's website and entered Old Catholic into their search engine and Holy Orders. It brings up nothing about their validity.
It is my understanding that the only Holy Orders the Church considers valid is what is listed in the Catechism, which would be the Eastern churches.
If you can find a document from the Vatican stating otherwise, I am certainly willing to listen and take it into consideration. It's just that I can't find anything to validate that they have sanctioned Holy Orders from the Church.
That is mistaken.
If validly ordained priests and bishops splinter off into a new church (or an "old" church in this example), their orders don't dissipate. They are still priests and bishops. As such they can validly perform sacraments, including ordination.
Validly, not licitly, which is a different question.
So when the Old Catholic Church was formed, it consisted of validly ordained men. Inasmuch as they intend to do what the Church does, they can perform valid ordinations.
On men.
SD
ROFL, ROFL, ROFL. Honest, one can't make up this stuff, & they just can't help themselves with their "testimony."
BTW, are these new priestesses called Father (as in Father Eileen) or Mother or just Ms?
Sigh. I really thought I could pass this up without comment. Wrong. Madame priestess, Jesus Christ also said "Go and sin no more". Just more ear-tickling by women who want to be men.
Fine, I will ask you too to provide proof from the Vatican that they have valid orders.Inasmuch as they intend to do what the Church does, they can perform valid ordinations.
Since when did the Old Catholic church intend to do what the Church does? They ordain people who are in opposition to the Pope and Catholic teaching for goodness sakes.
Perhaps you did not understand the logic of my last post?
Men ordained by validly ordained bishops are validly ordained. IF this is the case for a given Old Catholic priest, then he is a valid priest.
If it isn't, he isn't. I don't think a blanket statement can be made one way or the other.
Since when did the Old Catholic church intend to do what the Church does? They ordain people who are in opposition to the Pope and Catholic teaching for goodness sakes.
I meant in terms of the sacrament in question. They intend to sacramentally ordain a priest.
SD
Is number 2 like "rock, paper, scissors"?
There are a few choice titles I would like to assign them, but they are inappropriate for this forum.
It's the same claptrap coming out of these women priests. They have to make God into a woman so that they feel more empowered I guess. I don't get it.
Given that they started out with bishops with valid orders, and never changed their ordination rite, subsequent ordinations would continue to be valid.
Valid, not licit.
They ordain people who are in opposition to the Pope and Catholic teaching for goodness sakes.
So do the Orthodox. So do the post-VC 2 schismatic groups, like the SSPV. Sacramental validity doesn't require loyalty to the Pope.
Hmmm... that's not what the Catechism says:
Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, "have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the ABSENCE OF THE SACRAMENT OF HOLY ORDERS."239 It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, "when they commemorate the Lord's death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory."
How can the Holy Orders be valid if they are absent??
Dear FJ290,
One of the tenets of Protestantism, generally, was that Holy Orders wasn't a sacrament. Most Protestant groups that acknowledge any sort of sacraments at all will typically only acknowledge Baptism and Holy Communion. Of course, different Protestant groups may also recognize one or more other sacraments, specifically marriage.
Thus, the Apostolic Succession of Protestant groups generally lapsed, as no one did any ordaining of valid ministers, because there could be no intent to "do what the Church does" if there was an explicit rejection of the sacramentality and theology of the act.
Conversely, the Old Catholics didn't reject the theology of Holy Orders, or any of the sacraments generally, but merely went into schism with the Catholic Church. Eventually, schism turned to heresy, and with many Old Catholic-derived groups, eventually turned to apostasy. But these groups have been fastidious about preserving Catholic Apostolic Succession, unlike Protestants, whose very theology rejected even the notion of Apostolic Succession.
Only where they have consecrated female "bishops" are their claims to Apostolic Succession entirely extinguished.
Hope that helps a little.
sitetest
I keep checking the Archdiocese website for some sort of announcement, but so far, no soap. *SIGH*
Not every spirit is a Holy one...
Dear FJ290,
I don't know the current status of the validity of the main trunk of Old Catholic Holy Orders, but its quite clear that the Catholic Church at least formerly recognized the validity of these orders.
As you've recounted, the Church does recognize the validity of Holy Orders in the Polish National Catholic Church.
The Polish National Catholic Church was founded by Franciszek Hodur, a Catholic priest ordained in 1893. In 1897, he led his parish out of the Catholic Church, founding the PNCC. He was ordained a bishop in 1907 by Old Catholic bishops in Utrecht, Netherlands (where the Old Catholics began). Principally through Fr. Hodur's episcopal lineage, the Polish National Catholic Church traces its Apostolic Succession that the Catholic Church recognizes.
Of course, there's a lot of water under the bridge since 1907, and I think the validity of Old Catholic orders has become a lot more fuzzy for a variety of reasons, including the consecration of female "bishops."
I believe that the Church refrains from commenting on the validity of Old Catholic orders because it may be a case that there is no general rule to apply anymore. My guess is that if an Old Catholic-derived priest or bishop wished to become Catholic, his case would require individual examination.
sitetest
Actually no it does not. I am not trying to be hard nosed about this, but no one can come up with the proof from the Vatican that they are considered to have valid holy orders. The only proof is that the Eastern Orthodox do.
Pope John Paul II said this in ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA, 2003:
"Catholics may not receive communion in those communities which lack a valid sacrament of Orders."
The Catechism says that the only valid Holy Orders are from the Eastern churches:
1399 The Eastern churches that are not in full communion with the Catholic Church celebrate the Eucharist with great love. "These Churches, although separated from us, yet possess true sacraments, above all - by apostolic succession - the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are still joined to us in closest intimacy." A certain communion in sacris, and so in the Eucharist, "given suitable circumstances and the approval of Church authority, is not merely possible but is encouraged."
In fairness to those who are in opposition to what I have said, I have searched Vatican website to see if they have valid Holy Orders. Only the Eastern churches are listed as in the Catechism.
I feel so bad for the children who are part of HER church.
Do those who attend HER church excommunicate themselves, even the children??
I don't know where you get the "only" part. It says that the Eastern churches have valid orders, but it doesn't say that only they do.
The Catechism says that valid orders are absent in the Protestant communities. It doesn't address the issue of post-Reformation Western groups in schism from Rome.
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