Just what is happening at Medjugorje?

American Papist ^ | July 25, 2006 | Thomas

[NYer]

The question of Medjugorje is a huge (and often heated) one, and it looks like it's about to get bigger and, well, more heated:

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Cardinal Vinko Puljic of Sarajevo, Bosnia-Herzegovina, announced a commission would be formed to review the alleged Marian apparitions at Medjugorje and pastoral provisions for the thousands of pilgrims who visit the town each year.

"The commission members have not been named yet," Cardinal Puljic told Catholic News Service in a July 24 telephone interview. "I am awaiting suggestions from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" on theologians to appoint. "

But this commission will be under the (Bosnian) bishops' conference" as is the usual practice with alleged apparitions, he said. [More...]

Now, here's the other important development:

"there is currently going around the blogosphere a statement by Bishop Peric of Mostar-Duvno regarding the apparitions reported at Medjugorje, which is in his diocese."

[He makes the following dramatic appeal:]

Therefore I responsibly call upon those who claim themselves to be “seers”, as well as those persons behind the “messages”, to demonstrate ecclesiastical obedience and to cease with these public manifestations and messages in this parish. In this fashion they shall show their necessary adherence to the Church, by neither placing private “apparitions” nor private sayings before the official position of the Church.

[Jimmy Akin has more analysis.]

The Bishop's statement (and appeal) are being claimed by some as a "new litmus test" for the authenticity of the apparitions (h/t: Mark Shea).

Dom has commentary on the Bishop's statement (with plenty of combox debate).

So, between Mark Shea, Jimmy Akin and Dom Bettinelli, you should have all the links you need.

From my brief read of the situation, it seems reasonable to expect that a more authoritative judgment on Medjugorje will be issued later this fall (knowing how long these things tend to take, add the necessary grain of salt to any timescale projections).

Finally, a closing observation: the spiritual fruits of Medjogorje should always be distinguished from the authenticity of the apparitions themselves as well as the content of the messages received. So whatever happens, we don't have to worry about that. Thank goodness.

[Straight Vermonter]

Interesting. I thought Medjugorje had pretty much be debunked.

[Straight Vermonter]

Be=been

[Nihil Obstat]

Finally, a closing observation: the spiritual fruits of Medjogorje should always be distinguished from the authenticity of the apparitions themselves as well as the content of the messages received. So whatever happens, we don't have to worry about that. Thank goodness.

Good point -- there are definitely amazing conversion stories from there.

[Solson]

Not the case. There is strong debate on both sides. My parents went in the 90's and were quite overwhelmed by the feeling and response. They've also been to Lourdes, Fatima and Garabandal.

[DTA]

Were they aware of the historical conotations of Medjugorje, i.e. the extermination commited there in WWIIthe site they visited?

Were your parents aware that the Franciscans took hands on approach to slaughtering of civilians, i.e. they led others by example, shalughtering and butchering elderly, women and children? Did they learn that Father Zovko, a key person in Medjugorje alleged apparition is a relative of another Father Zovko, a war criminal?

Visiting Medjugorje without being aware of this is sort of visiting Dachau without knowing what was happening there sixty plus years ago.

[Suzy Quzy]

What happened at Garabandal? I've never heard that name before?

[Suzy Quzy]

Franciscans killed elderly and children? I don't think so.

[It's me]

Did they learn that Father Zovko, a key person in Medjugorje alleged apparition is a relative of another Father Zovko, a war criminal?

Well, wait a minute here. As much as I do NOT like what is happening at Medjugorje, that statement is really not fair.
Can you blame Mel Gibson for his father's words? No.
My father's nuts but I'm not. (At least I don't think I am!)

You really lhave to use another tactic. How about facts that stand on their own concerning Father Zovko?

[netmilsmom]

>>Not the case. There is strong debate on both sides. My parents went in the 90's and were quite overwhelmed by the feeling and response. They've also been to Lourdes, Fatima and Garabandal.<<

So basically your parents are overwhelmed no matter what Marian apparition site they visit, whether real or fake.

[DTA]

>>>>>>Franciscans killed elderly and children? I don't think so.<<<<<

What you think or do not think has no bearing on historical facts.

There are even reports from Bishop of Mostar to Archbishop Stepinac about the mass slaughter and forced conversions.

Bishop of Mostar's Letter to Archbishop Stepinac As head of the Catholic Church in Croatia, all religious matters - including forced conversions by the Serbian population to Catholicism - were the responsibility of Archbishop Alojzije Stepinac of Zagreb. This excerpt is a response from the Bishop of Mostar to a letter Stepinac sent inquiring as to the progress of forced conversions in his diocese - the capital of Hercegovina and scene of the worst Ustase massacres during the Spring and Summer of 1941. Stepinac passed this letter on to Ante Pavelic, but otherwise took no action. By the mercy of God there was never such a good occasion as now for us to help Croatia to save the countless souls, people of good will, well-disposed peasants, who live side-by-side with Catholics... Conversion would be appropriate and easy. Unfortunately the authorities in their narrow views are involuntarily hindering the Croatia and Catholic cause. In many parishes in the diocese... very honest peasants of the Orthodox faith have registered in the Catholic Church... But then outsiders take things in hand. While the newly-converted are at Mass they seize them, men and women alike, and hunt them down like slaves. From Mostar and Caplina the railway carried six boxcars of mothers, girls and children under eight to the station of Surmanci, where they were taken out of the boxcars, brought into the hill and thrown alive, mothers and children, into deep ravines. In the parish of Klepca seven hundred schismatics from the neighboring villages were slaughtered. The Sub-Prefect of Mostar, a Muslim, publicly declared (as a state employee he should have held his tongue) that in Ljubina alone 700 schismatics have been thrown into one pit. In the town of Mostar itself they have been bound by the hundreds, taken in wagons outside the town and then shot down like animals."

There are many graphic reports. The most savage acts occured in Medjugorje and surrounding villages.

I find disturbing that you are not willing to admit that the mass scale crimes have occured.

[Solson]

Interesting read without much supporting documentation.

I'll take my direction from the Church. Thanks though.

[Solson]

quit projecting.

[It's me]

Well they can call themselves franciscans, if they want.

From Jimmy Akin's blog:

...since, as the bishop reports:

[I]n this local Church of Mostar-Duvno, there exists something similar to a schism. A number of priests that have been expelled from the Franciscan OFM Order by the Generalate of the Order, due to their disobedience to the Holy Father, for years now have been forcefully keeping a few parish churches and rectories along with church inventory. They have not only been illegally active in these parishes, but they have also administered the sacraments profanely, while others invalidly, such as Confession and Confirmation, or they have assisted at invalid marriages. This type of anti-ecclesial behaviour is shocking to all of us. At the same time, this scandal of sacrilegiously administering the sacraments, especially of the Most Holy Body of Christ, must shock all the faithful as well who invalidly confess their sins to these priests and participate in sacrilegious liturgies. We pray to the Lord that this scandal and schism be uprooted as soon as possible from our midst.

If I were B16, that's the kind of situation I would want to get sorted out.

Interesting.....

[DTA]

>>>>>>I'll take my direction from the Church. Thanks though.<<<<<<

You mean, direction of Roman Catholic Church of 1941 or Roman Catholic Church of today? There is a huge difference.

B16 does not suport Medjugorje hoax.

[It's me]

quit projecting.

What is that supposed to mean? Really.

[netmilsmom]

>>You really lhave to use another tactic. How about facts that stand on their own concerning Father Zovko?<<


http://www.unitypublishing.com/ZovkoSex.htm

[netmilsmom]

>>quit projecting<<

What in the world are you talking about?
I've never been to a Marian apparition site in my life.

Your parents, however, had the same feelings at Lourdes and Fatima as at those not approved by the church.

Says something.....

[Solson]

What the Church permits.

As the already cited statements note, Catholics may go to Medjugorje. Such pilgrimages may even include priests acting as chaplains, as opposed to officially sponsoring them. Also, the Church has not suppressed discussion of Medjugorje, therefore, it is allowed. Common sense, however, says that Catholics on both sides of the Medjugorje issue should exercise prudence and charity in speaking of others who believe differently. Medjugorje is not a litmus test of orthodoxy, though every Catholic will have a moral obligation to accept the judgement of Rome, in the manner Pope Benedict explained, should it ever be rendered.

Source: http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/medjugorje.htm

No judgement by the Church has ever been rendered on Medjugorje or Garabandal. Once they are rendered, if they are, obedience will be necessary.