Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

To Hell and Back - for a Popsicle
Vertical Thought Magazine ^ | July 2006 | Randy Stiver

Posted on 07/09/2006 7:55:34 PM PDT by DouglasKC

To Hell and Back—for a Popsicle

The story is real. The Popsicle was sweet. The understanding is priceless.

by Randy Stiver

icon arrowJerusalem's sizzling summer sun in '73 fiercely scorched my exposed skin and slow-cooked my brain. I found archaeology at the Temple Mount to be good, hard, hot, dusty, thirsty work. It was so hot and three of us so thirsty that we stood at the edge of the precipice that noonday summoning the nerve to launch an expedition into the very depths of hell itself to find something to cool our dry tongues and parched lips.

photoDown we went, down, down into the Valley of Hinnom, down into Gehenna, down into the very hell that Jesus spoke of, down, down . . . until we found the small grocery store that sold the most delicious pineapple Popsicles you can imagine. We bought four, including one that I got for a beautiful coworker (now my lovely wife), and marched back up the steep street happily licking our treats. After that, we regularly went to hell and back for Popsicles.

Hell must not be so bad then? No, hell is bad enough, but more importantly hell is badly misunderstood by every religion of the world—especially traditional Christianity. There is no need for you to misunderstand hell, however. Come, let me take you on a quick tour of the Bible. We'll go to hell and back with true understanding.

Hell to the world

At the turn of the 21st century various surveys show that in America about half of the population believes in a hell of some sort.

Some believe in the basic, popular hell of Catholic and Protestant Christianity—an ever-burning place of torment and punishment for the immortal souls of wicked people. They're firmly convinced that the Bible teaches that kind of hell—even though it was not part of Christian doctrine until nearly two centuries after Christ!

Others can't conceive that a loving God would administer such a heinous punishment for eternity. They reason that since God is so loving, everyone, no matter how evil and demented, will receive eternal life and no one will go to hell—never mind that such a philosophy has no basis in Scripture, and its logical conclusion would be that nothing is really wrong or evil.

Hell in the Bible

The truth is, there are actually three "hells" mentioned in the Bible as it is commonly translated into English—and not one of them matches either of the above schools of thought. The confusion arises when the usual Christian theology swirls the three "hells" together into one great muddled mass. Let's look at each as the Bible explains it and sort out fact from fiction.

Hell #1: Hades or Sheol. Hades is the Greek word often rendered as "hell" in the New Testament, and sheol is the corresponding Hebrew word used in the Old Testament. Both words simply mean "the grave."

The classic example drawn from the beautiful, Shakespearean—sounding King James Version is in Acts 2:27: "Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." The word translated "hell" is the Greek hades.

This verse is a direct and inspired quotation from one of King David's psalms in the Old Testament—Psalm 16:10. There the Hebrew word translated as "hell" is sheol. Both passages refer to the fact that Jesus as Messiah would not remain in the grave, but would be resurrected.

We will all go to this kind of "hell," for it is appointed for all men to die once (Hebrews 9:27). But the grave is not a place of constant conscious torture and torment!

Solomon wrote of the grave like this: "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave [ sheol ] where you are going" (Ecclesiastes 9:10). The grave is simply a place of very dead sleep until the resurrection, which itself is another story. You will find no Popsicles in this hell.

Hell #2: Tartaroo. This Greek word, found and translated only once in the New Testament as "hell," has a very clear and specific application: "God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment" (2 Peter 2:4).

Fallen or sinning angels do exist. They are called demons and the chief one is Satan the devil. God has justly prepared a condition of spiritual restraint or imprisonment for them today. This is the idea behind the use of the term tartaroo in this passage.

However, there are no human beings who will experience the hell of tartaroo. Yet much of Christianity thinks that the traditional ever-burning hell will be like tartaroo, where they think the immortal souls of bad human beings will suffer forever.

Here's the bombshell—they're wrong because human beings have no such thing as an immortal soul! But that is a huge, other story.

Hell #3: Gehenna. Now we have arrived at the business end of the biblical hell. God will offer the gift of eternal life in His great Kingdom to every last human being. But to accept the sacrifice of Christ for our sins—and to live God's way of life of overcoming—forces each of us to make a choice. Do we want to live forever or not? The answer should be obvious, right?

But "should be" sometimes gets slippery. The bottom line is that those few who ultimately rebel against their Creator and refuse to change their ways to embrace His ways will die in the true hell of the Bible. God means what He says: "The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23, emphasis added), not eternal life in some bad place.

Completely contrary to the hellfire of many religions and certainly most of Christianity, the hell of the Bible simply ends the life of the wicked—it does not torture and torment them forever. After all, how could an average 70-year life of a sinner equal a never-ending eternity of heinous agony?

The true hell reflects both God's justice, by enforcing His divine laws of life, and His mercy, by swiftly ending the existence of the unrepentant few who choose to be the evil, the covetous, the thieving, the cowardly, the unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters and liars (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Revelation 21:8).

How to go to hell and back

Now here's how I went to hell and back for the Popsicle. Gehenna is a Greek word meaning "valley of Hinnom." Jesus used gehenna to describe the true hell that He also called the lake of fire, the place of destruction of the wicked referred to in the prophetic book of Revelation (20:15).

The site of ancient Jerusalem, then as well as today, was marked by two deep valleys, almost canyons, running along its east and south sides. The valley to the south is the Valley of Hinnom or gehenna.

During part of ancient Israel's history it was the site of idolatrous shrines where disobedient and perverted Israelites committed the evil sin of child sacrifice. By Christ's day it had become Jerusalem's city dump, where refuse was always being burned. As the historical site of infanticide and then as a trash dump, Jesus chose gehenna (Luke 12:4-5) as a fitting reference for the lake of fire.

The Temple Mount excavations where my wife-to-be and I were working that hot summer stood uphill from the lower end of the Valley of Hinnom. During our noon breaks we had time to walk down into gehenna —hell—and get those delightful Popsicles. That is, get Popsicles and do some deep thinking about our lives and life itself in the light of God's Word.

Life has consequences. Knowing what you and I know now, if we choose life, then a happy eternity in the Kingdom of God is our destiny. If, however, we choose to reject the great and loving God who made us, then our conclusion is death in the lake of fire, the true hell of the Bible. And believe me—we don't want to go there! VT



TOPICS: Activism; General Discusssion; History; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: bible; christ; god; hades; hell; sheol
For educational purposes only...
1 posted on 07/09/2006 7:55:37 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC

I'll bet you didn't know I'm old enough to remember "Audie Murphy". He also went to "Hell and Back". Great subject, Douglas. Thank you.


2 posted on 07/09/2006 8:05:40 PM PDT by Diego1618
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Diego1618
I'll bet you didn't know I'm old enough to remember "Audie Murphy". He also went to "Hell and Back". Great subject, Douglas. Thank you.

You're right...I didn't know that. I'm ashamed to say that I didn't know much about Audie Murphy (other than the name) till you mentioned him. I did a quick read of his biography...wow!

3 posted on 07/09/2006 8:11:45 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
My Bible study on this subject has led me to similar conclusions as the author.

One question though ...

The author appears to believe that few will end up in Hell ...
The true hell reflects both God's justice, by enforcing His divine laws of life, and His mercy, by swiftly ending the existence of the unrepentant few who choose to be the evil, the covetous, the thieving, the cowardly, the unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters and liars (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Revelation 21:8).
Is this an accurate appraisal of his beliefs ?

And does this conflict with Jesus' teaching that many will travel the road to destruction, ... while only a few will find the road to life ?

4 posted on 07/09/2006 8:36:57 PM PDT by Quester
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Quester
The author is trying to redefine hell the way he'd like it to be. For example:

Matt.7:14

[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

This came from the lips of Christ. I certainly take His word over opinion of this author. Christ spoke quite often about HELL.

The verse above conflicts with the author's view of:

"The author appears to believe that few will end up in Hell ...
The true hell reflects both God's justice, by enforcing His divine laws of life, and His mercy, by swiftly ending the existence of the unrepentant few who choose to be the evil, the covetous, the thieving, the cowardly, the unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters and liars (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Revelation 21:8). "

Looking up 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 states:

[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I don't see ANYWHERE where it implies or even infers FEW will go to hell. He is stating what kinds of people will be in hell.

Revelation 21:8 states this:

[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Again, it doesn't imply or infer that FEW will be in hell. What it does state again is the kinds of people who will be in hell AFTER the White Throne Judgment. When they die a PHYSICAL death they go to hell. After He collects His own and returns to earth there will be a final judgment in heaven for the UNSAVED, hence the SECOND death. The SAVED will NOT experience the White Throne Judgment.
5 posted on 07/09/2006 8:58:13 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC

"They're firmly convinced that the Bible teaches that kind of hell—even though it was not part of Christian doctrine until nearly two centuries after Christ!"

What genuine Christians go by is the Bible. Hell was talked about by Christ. I believe He knows of what He speaks of.

Verses in the Bible on hell:

HELL


Taken from the HOLY BIBLE: NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION (C) 1978 by the New York Bible Society, used by permission of Zondervan Bible Publishers.

PSA 9:17 The wicked return to the grave, all the nations that forget God.

139:8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.

PRO 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps lead straight to the grave.

15:24 The path of life leads upward for the wise to keep him from going down to the grave.

23:13 Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.

MAT 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in
danger of the fire of hell.

29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,

39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.

41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous

50 and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

25:28 "'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents.

29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.

30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

MAR 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.

47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,

LUK 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

16:23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

2TH 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power

JAM 3:6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

2PE 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

JUD 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

REV 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

6:8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild
beasts of the earth.

9:1 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss.

2 When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the
Abyss.

14:10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

19:20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his
image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

http://www.biblebb.com/files/tniv/HELL.TXT

These verses from the Bible do NOT at all agree with the author of this article on his view of hell.

Ironically they know for a FACT that the depths of the center of the earth is VERY, VERY, VERY HOT. Interesting ... how hell is described as DOWN or BELOW.


6 posted on 07/09/2006 9:09:54 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
Prior to the death of Christ, believers were not in heaven. After the death of Christ ... after He paid for their sins, then heaven was open to them. In the OLD Testament there was ONE hell with two areas. One area for the righteous and the other for the Unrighteous:

Luke 16:19-31 helps clear up this fact:

[19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

[25] But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

[26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

[27] Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

[28] For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

[29] Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

[30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
7 posted on 07/09/2006 9:14:53 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Quester
The author appears to believe that few will end up in Hell ... The true hell reflects both God's justice, by enforcing His divine laws of life, and His mercy, by swiftly ending the existence of the unrepentant few who choose to be the evil, the covetous, the thieving, the cowardly, the unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters and liars (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Revelation 21:8). Is this an accurate appraisal of his beliefs ?
And does this conflict with Jesus' teaching that many will travel the road to destruction, ... while only a few will find the road to life ?

I think it's the author's view that relatively few will end up in the lake of fire, but that number is unknown. Scripturally, the problem is to reconcile these verses:

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

This great multitude comes out of the great tribulation. This is direct revelation from God through Christ.

To square it with this statement:

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

One way to reconcile it is to understand that there are two resurrections spoken of in scripture. The first resurrection, those who are Christ's at his coming and those who died in Christ:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

These people are resurrected as eternal beings at the return of Christ. The rest are resurrected after the thousand years. I believe this corresponds to the 144,000 out of every tribe of Israel in Revelation 7.

So when Jesus said that few find the road, he may have been referring to those few who find the way during their lives and are resurrected at his return.

8 posted on 07/10/2006 6:39:02 AM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: nmh
These verses from the Bible do NOT at all agree with the author of this article on his view of hell. Ironically they know for a FACT that the depths of the center of the earth is VERY, VERY, VERY HOT. Interesting ... how hell is described as DOWN or BELOW.

I think you need to reread the authors view, or maybe the article didn't make it clear enough. Sure there's a hell. The lake of fire and people are going to be burned up in it. The question is exactly how many people are going to end up there. See my last post to Quester.

9 posted on 07/10/2006 6:41:52 AM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
"The question is exactly how many people are going to end up there. See my last post to Quester."

Many will be in hell.

Whoever goes there will have lots of company. The Bible is clear that FEW find the right path. As to how many? Who knows. I also don't know when He is coming again. No mere mortal knows the answer to either question.
10 posted on 07/10/2006 9:45:10 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
Always remember that Scripture clarifies itself.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Me: Sure there will be people in heaven but compared to ALL those who lived since time began, it will be FEW in comparison.

"This great multitude comes out of the great tribulation. This is direct revelation from God through Christ."

How did you arrive at that? I don't agree with that at all.

"To square it with this statement:"

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

There is no issue, FEW will be up there compared to all those who ever lived. To be more specific - look around ... do you see MANY people REALLY FOLLOWING HIM? I don't. Now, think back in time about history and how people lived and behaved. Is it so hard to see that FEW will be in heaven?

"One way to reconcile it is to understand that there are two resurrections spoken of in scripture. The first resurrection, those who are Christ's at his coming and those who died in Christ:"

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The dead will be raised first and those still on the earth will meet Him in the air.

"These people are resurrected as eternal beings at the return of Christ. The rest are resurrected after the thousand years. I believe this corresponds to the 144,000 out of every tribe of Israel in Revelation 7."

WHO is resurrected after the 1000 years? I've never heard this version before. Christ will reign for 1000 years and the 144,000 are the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles.

"So when Jesus said that few find the road, he may have been referring to those few who find the way during their lives and are resurrected at his return."

You either find Him during your life or you don't. Once you're dead it's too late. Or maybe I'm not understanding you.
11 posted on 07/10/2006 9:58:50 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC

Here's a better summary of the 144,000

-(Summary of the 144,000)
144,000 on the earth

12,000 from all the twelve tribes of Israel, excluding Dan

They are sealed in their forehead

They are the servants of God

The 144,000 are with the Lamb

They are pictured on Mount Zion

They have the Father's name written in their foreheads

They sung a new song

They were before the throne

No one could learn that song, except the 144,000

They were not defiled with women

They were virgins (it appears these were not married)

They follow Jesus

They were ransomed or purchased from among men

They are the firstfruits unto God

There was no guile or lies found in their mouth

They are without fault or defect (or are blameless before the throne of God)

This link explains the details with Scripture.

http://www.parentalguide.com/Documents/Bible_Prophecy/144000_Jews.htm

In my other reply to you, I didn't get it quite right. Hope this clears up the 144,000.


12 posted on 07/10/2006 10:17:51 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC

mark


13 posted on 07/10/2006 12:34:26 PM PDT by Jaded (does it really need a sarcasm tag?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nmh
"This great multitude comes out of the great tribulation. This is direct revelation from God through Christ."
How did you arrive at that? I don't agree with that at all.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshiped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God forever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

14 posted on 07/10/2006 6:43:45 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: nmh
They were not defiled with women
They were virgins (it appears these were not married)

Thank you for your summary. I agree with most of your comments in this post, but I agree with many commentators that they are virgins in the spiritual sense...they haven't partaken of the idolotry that most of the world will have participated in:

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

15 posted on 07/10/2006 7:07:12 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: All

bump


16 posted on 07/12/2006 6:26:29 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson