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Vatican opposes female clergy anywhere, gives reasons from Bible
Associated Press ^ | Saturday, July 8, 2006 | Richard N. Ostling

Posted on 07/08/2006 9:23:38 AM PDT by WestTexasWend

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To: fogofbobegabay

In practical reality, what's the real difference between the two?


21 posted on 07/08/2006 12:44:52 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: marajade
I guess the difference is that if God tells you to do something-you do it.
22 posted on 07/08/2006 12:48:12 PM PDT by fogofbobegabay
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To: fogofbobegabay

Isn't that what both the Pope and the prophet of the Mormon Church both believed?


23 posted on 07/08/2006 12:50:58 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: fogofbobegabay; marajade
The prohibition of married clergy in the Latin rite is only a matter of discipline. It is not based on any biblical or doctrinal basis.

Hmm... I would respectfully disagree with that.

For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it. St. Matthew 9:12

St. Paul also said that he wished all men were like himself, celibate: 1 Cor.7:7-8

I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.

To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do.

Same chapter he says this in verses 32-33>

I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord;

But the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife

The Vatican also has an article "The Biblical Foundation of Celibacy:

Vatican

24 posted on 07/08/2006 12:52:03 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: marajade; bornacatholic

Dear marajade,

Here is how the New American Bible puts it:

"Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once,..." 1 Tim 3:2

Now, there's nothing here that says the bishop must have been married at least once. However, one might make that interpretation, except that elsewhere St. Paul strongly encourages the vow of celibacy. As well, Jesus Himself encourages making oneself a "eunuch for the sake of the Kingdom." Matt 19:12

"I believe the book of Timothy states..."

That's interesting, what you believe. For us Catholics, we believe that it is the Church, who received her authority from the Apostles, and thus from Jesus Himself, who has the authority to definitively interpret Scripture.

I can see how you come to your interpretation. My intellect prefers the teaching of the Church as seemingly better fitting all the scriptures involved.

However, the conclusions of my own intellect aside, by an act of will, I assent to the teaching and discipline of the Catholic Church, and submit my intellect to her, as it is within the Church of Christ that the authority to teach resides.


sitetest


25 posted on 07/08/2006 12:53:44 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

"For us Catholics, we believe that it is the Church, who received her authority from the Apostles, and thus from Jesus Himself, who has the authority to definitively interpret Scripture."

So tell me, how many Catholic priests in your church have been married once?


26 posted on 07/08/2006 12:57:00 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: marajade
The Catholic Church believes its Pope has the final say in how it will teach its believers instead of just following the word of God.

The Lord made His Church to be infallible in the exercise of her doctrinal authority.

The Vicar of Christ, the Pope, is considered "infallible" , in regards to the teaching of faith and morals to the Catholic faithful.

I said in regards to "faith and morals", not economics or politics.

This "infallibility" comes through guidance from the Holy Spirit.

And the Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Trinity: God.

The Holy Spirit--God--will not allow the Pope to mislead the faithful when teaching on issues of faith and morals,

which means that the Pope is following the word of God.
27 posted on 07/08/2006 12:58:04 PM PDT by dollars_for_dogma
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To: FJ290
I stand corrected. I should have said: celibacy is supported by both biblically and doctrinally, but not mandated.
28 posted on 07/08/2006 12:58:15 PM PDT by fogofbobegabay
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To: dollars_for_dogma

So I guess when the prophet of the Mormon Church received revelation from God because he too as a leader is infallible it was okay for them to practice polygamy.


29 posted on 07/08/2006 12:59:44 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: fogofbobegabay; FJ290

" ... but not mandated."

Except for its priesthood.


30 posted on 07/08/2006 1:00:27 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: marajade; NYer; RKBA Democrat

Dear marajade,

I believe that in the United States, about 200 Catholic priests of the Latin Rite have been married once. In the Eastern Catholic Churches, I don't know how many priests are married, but except in the United States, they may generally marry prior to ordination. In the United States, recent changes of discipline now permit marriage before ordination in the Eastern Catholic Churches, as well, although I think the understanding is that it must be with the blessing of the bishop.

I've pinged a few folks who are Eastern Catholics (they are just as much Catholic as folks who go to the local Roman Catholic Church). They may wish to elaborate.


sitetest


31 posted on 07/08/2006 1:01:19 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: marajade
I believe the book of Timothy states that priests should be the husband of but one wife and their children faithful. Big diff from what you are saying in my opinion.

Actually it says Bishops if you want to get technical.

Let's turn your argument around on you though. Logically, how can a woman be the husband of one wife?

What do you do with the passages from Scripture that disallow women to teach in church, learn in silence and submission? What do you do with the fact that Jesus never chose a woman as an Apostle, nor did the Apostles ever ordain women.

32 posted on 07/08/2006 1:02:53 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: marajade
I believe the book of Timothy states that priests should be the husband of but one wife and their children faithful. Big diff from what you are saying in my opinion.

So does that mean that priests whose wives end up being barren are defrocked?
33 posted on 07/08/2006 1:04:56 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: sitetest

"In the United States, recent changes of discipline now permit marriage before ordination in the Eastern Catholic Churches, as well ..."

What the heck does this mean? We've got all these different rites and latin and eastern whatevers that are taking different stances on the issue.

Why not just believe what the Book of Timothy says and be done with all of it. Wouldn't it just be a whole lot simpler?


34 posted on 07/08/2006 1:04:57 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: WestTexasWend

Changing the laws of nature and God is abominable. Using the Lord's Love to make political statements undermines the Christian Church.

Lots of stuff women can do to further Christ's mission.


35 posted on 07/08/2006 1:06:04 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: FJ290

Nice post...well put.

...and I don't normally throw out the compliments.


36 posted on 07/08/2006 1:06:50 PM PDT by AlaninSA ("Beware the fury of a patient man." - John Dryden)
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To: FJ290

"Actually it says Bishops if you want to get technical."

Bishops/Priests whatever you prefer. Its a fault of Catholic Church they used the Roman Gov't as a guide to support the heirarcy they have.

"Logically, how can a woman be the husband of one wife?"

Huh? That's not what I said, and neither did Timothy.


37 posted on 07/08/2006 1:07:25 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: marajade
So I guess when the prophet of the Mormon Church received revelation from God because he too as a leader is infallible it was okay for them to practice polygamy.

You can try to win the argument through guilt by association (no offense to our Mormon friends here) but just because we may all believe the "Mormon prophets" are wrong doesn't make the Pope's positions or authority wrong.
38 posted on 07/08/2006 1:08:52 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Conservative til I die

No, they wouldn't be considered to be a priest.


39 posted on 07/08/2006 1:09:45 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: AlaninSA

Thanks, which one, LOL!


40 posted on 07/08/2006 1:10:27 PM PDT by FJ290
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