Posted on 07/07/2006 6:57:38 AM PDT by NYer
LONDON (CNS) -- The bishop whose diocese includes the Bosnian village of Medjugorje has urged six alleged Marian visionaries to stop claiming that Mary has been visiting them for 25 years.
Bishop Ratko Peric of Mostar-Duvno, Bosnia-Herzegovina, said the church "has not accepted, either as supernatural or as Marian, any of the apparitions" said to have been witnessed by a group of people from Medjugorje.
"As the local bishop, I maintain that regarding the events of Medjugorje, on the basis of the investigations and experience gained thus far throughout these last 25 years, the church has not confirmed a single apparition as authentically being the Madonna," he said. He then called on the alleged visionaries and "those persons behind the messages to demonstrate ecclesiastical obedience and to cease with these public manifestations and messages in this parish."
"In this fashion they shall show their necessary adherence to the church, by placing neither private apparitions nor private sayings before the official position of the church," he said.
"Our faith is a serious and responsible matter," he added. "The church is also a serious and responsible institution."
The bishop made his comments June 15 during a homily at a confirmation Mass in Medjugorje's St. James Church. The diocese published the homily in English and Italian July 3.
On June 25, thousands of pilgrims converged on Medjugorje to mark the 25th anniversary of the onset of the alleged apparitions.
Since June 24-25, 1981, the alleged visionaries together claim to have received more than 30,000 messages.
But Bishop Peric said in his homily that "so-called apparitions, messages, secrets and signs do not strengthen the faith, but rather further convince us that in all of this there is nothing either authentic or established as truthful."
He said in February that Pope Benedict XVI expressed similar doubts when they discussed Medjugorje during the Bosnian bishops' visit to the Vatican.
Bishop Peric told the congregation that because the church did not accept the claims of the visionaries it was illicit for priests to "express their private views contrary to the official position" during Mass, in acts of popular piety or in the Catholic media.
He said Catholics were forbidden from making pilgrimages to Medjugorje if by such visits "they presuppose the authenticity of the apparitions or if by undertaking them attempt to certify these apparitions."
Bishop Peric said his views, and those of his predecessor, Bishop Pavao Zanic, who was also opposed to the claims, were supported by the pope. He expressed appreciation to Popes Benedict and John Paul II, "who have always respected the judgments of the bishops of Mostar-Duvno, of the previous as well as the current bishop, regarding the so-called apparitions and messages of Medjugorje, all the while recognizing the Holy Father's right to give a final decision on these events."
He also warned his audience of a schism emerging in the region between the church and more than a dozen Franciscan brothers and priests who have been expelled by the generalate of the Order of Friars Minor in Rome because of their disobedience to the pope.
He said that the expelled Franciscans "have not only been illegally active in these parishes, but they have also administered the sacraments profanely ... or they have assisted at invalid marriages."
Bishop Peric said he shared the view of Bishop Zanic that the visions and the Franciscan "schism," which began under Pope Paul VI in the 1970s, are linked.
Throughout the 1980s, Franciscan Father Jozo Zovko acted as "spiritual adviser" to the visionaries.
But three church commissions failed to find evidence to support their claims, and in 1991 the bishops of the former Yugoslavia declared that "it cannot be affirmed that these matters concern supernatural apparitions or revelations."
A short while later Father Zovko was stripped of his faculties to exercise any priestly functions by Bishop Zanic in a decree upheld by Bishop Peric.
There is a good reason for it. Medjugorje hoax was not created for financial gain only but for political reasons as well. Hercegovina region where it is situated was the place of the most horrendous crimes during the WWII.
Since April 10 1941 (creation of Nazi state of Croatia) Franciscans have instigated and personally took part in mass murder of Serb villagers of Orthoox faith in Herzegovina.
In one instance, in Shurmanci village, hundreds of villagers were thrown alive in pits and caves. Shurmanci crime scene is a stone thow from the site where sighting allegedly took place . Go figure.
Such savagery involving the RC priests has not been seen since conquest of South America.
Father Zovko, one of the chief creators of Medjugoje myth is a relative of another father Zovko, WWII war criminal.
All this was well known in Vatican and Vatican NEVER ackowledged Medjugorje.
Medjugorje is not only the worst case of criminal enterprise and racket, it is also a perfect case of Nazi revisionism guised as the expression of religious freedom.
MIllions of those who visited it, were used to whitewash Franciscan and Nazi crimes.
Honestly, these fakes are so stuck in our parish that they were even brought up in my hubby's RCIA.
Way to win over searching Protestants. They think we border on idolotry with Mary anyway. These should not even be touched upon.
Two friends of mine were at a showing of "Lord of the Beans" at our parish. One lady is like me, the other is into all of these fakes. We gave this lady all the evidence we could on them. She dismissed them with a "I really believe." and it was left at that. Sad.
You are saying something I always suspected but was not sure of. Most of the accusations of Catholic complicity in the evils of the Nazi era are nonsense. But in the case of the Croatian Franciscans they are true. Some Franciscans took part in really horrible "ethnic cleansing" of Serbs and Jews. (One only has to read the book The Vatican in the Age of the Dictators --- which is very favorable to the popes of that era, and not some kind of hatchet job, as all these anti-Pius XII books are --- to know how wretched the crimes committed by some of the Franciscans in that region were.) Apparently there is a long history of the Franciscans in that region being out of control and disobedient to higher Church authority.
One should note that one person who has been shown to be completely innocent of such crimes was the late and great Cardinal Stepinac. At first, he was friendly to the Croatian puppet regime, seeing it in nationalist terms. But when he saw their true nature he became very outspoken both in public and in private in defense of the Serbs and Jews. The Tito regime tried to blacken his reputation with falsified evidence. But He has now been convincingly vindicated. Like the other great eastern European cardinals, Wyszinski in Poland and Mindszenty in Hungary Stepinac stood up to BOTH the Nazis and later the Communists.
NYer, biggirl again. Since I am trying to get back into Catholic devotion for Mary, do you have any info about the Medjugorie, pros and cons because I do not know outside of what I have read to come to any conclusion. In other words, I am very confused about this apparation of Mary. Thank-you. Take care.
See post number 24 please.
Only the Holy Father may rule on the validity of an apparition. So far, no final ruling has been made with regard to Medjugorje but the Catholic bishop whose diocese includes the town of Medjugorje has warned that "something similar to a schism" has arisen at the parish church. The best suggestion would be to stick with approved apparitions like Fatima and Lourdes.
When I have read your posting, I was very suprised to have read about the Croatian Franciscans having done horrible things. I have always thought that the Franciscans have always been peaceful minded. The ones I know, in the capital city of my homestate, Hartford, CT, in a local parish in the downtown area are very wonderful folks living examples of Christ in downtown Hartford. They belong I believe to the branch of the Franciscans of the Holy Land. Thanks once again to the history information.
As it is said offten over at Spiritdaily.com, the words, "for your discernment". I do believe that when it comes to apparations, go with the approved ones and use your God-given discernment gifts.
I did get to bookmark the site about the apparations of Mary. Thank-you for that info.
There's a saying which I think is a useful measure of gauging apparitions. "Vox populi, vox Dei". What this means is that popular devotion will often give a verdict on an apparition before the Church officially pronounces. Lourdes and Fatima were cases in point. Both had a strong and devoted following before the Church officially ruled. The same often applies to saints and holy people. Padre Pio and Mother Teresa, for instance, were already well established in popular devotion before the Church officially ruled on their sanctity.
Before anyone raises the point, I'm well aware that this rule does not apply to Church dogma or teaching. However, with regard to supernatural happenings which do not form part of the deposit of faith such as apparitions and the sanctity of those whom we deem holy, it's often a good guide.
For this reason, I'm rather skeptical of the "practical joke" hypothesis. There are fakers and kooks all over America claiming to see Jesus or His Mother. They never achieve critical mass (no pun inteneded) nor accumulate a worldwide following as Medugorje has.
There's something supernatural happening there. And the basic message of "prayer and fasting" seems to me to be a gospel one.
Of course, I've been wrong before and will be again but that's just my 0.02. As always, I'm totally amenable to whatever the Church's official verdict is......if there ever is one.
Do you remember where you heard/read that, about the devil's feet? I've heard the same thing but I don't remember where it comes from.
I have gone to the archives of the Spiritdaily website and found article about the role of bishops who decide on the issues of the supernatural. Here is the URL :
http://www.spiritdaily.org/MHB%20editorials/churchdiscern.htm
No sorry I can't. It was a book I was reading written by a priest who either performed or witnessed exorcisms. Unfortunately I can't remember the title.
As I remember it, he says it started out as a prank by the "visionaries," who were then young teens who had ducked out of a youth retreat to go smoke cigarettes. To avoid being reprimanded for playing hooky, they made up this story about the Blessed Mother appearing to them.
To the kids' surprise, people believed them and a spark of popular enthusiasm was lit.
After that, the Franciscans (who had been involved in an ecclesiastical power struggle with the local Bishop) inserted themselves into the situation as "managers," possibly telling the kids that they couldn't back out at this point or they would scandalize the simple pious people who believed them. So they should "make the best of it" by reporting nice, wholesome, marylike messages (families, should pray together, etc. etc.)
The Franciscans quickly grasped that this was a way to greatly boost their own prestige. They began to coach the kids on what to say, how to conduct themselves; they had videos made, organized publicity, set up tours, etc..
Mike Jones also brought in the historical significance to the Hill of Apparitions in relation to the Croatian Nazi atrocities. I don't remember all the details, but it was exceptionally ugly.
By the way, this does not reflect on "all Franciscans." This relates to a particular, nasty bunch who got away with WWII-era crimes for years partly because most "normal" people simply couldn't believe they could be guilty of such things. The mind resists. It seems almost literally unthinkable.
Not only that, but the "messages" promote teachings contrary to the faith, like the fact that all religions are equally valid.
Have you read the book The Third Secret by Steve Berry? It mentions the Medjugorje visions, among other things, and tends to promote a rather contrary line.
Do you have a source for your claim that he has forbidden Catholics to go to Medugorje?
Isn't that a fictional thriller?
Yes, bogus apparitions eventually will fizzle, but that doesn't mean they can't do damage along the way. Marpingen in Germany drew many more people to the site in the 1870's than Lourdes despite it's falsity. Garabandal, (which the Medjugorje "story" partly borrowed from, i.e. the "10 secrets") is still in process of fizzling (even Mother Angelica went there!). With regards to your examples concerning holy people, etc., the sensus fidelium never contradicted judgments of the magisterium, nor did the magisterium simply rubber state the sentiments of a bunch of people.
It is interesting that you mention that "There's something supernatural happening there." I say this since the official position of the Church (the Zadar statement) reads as 'non constat de supernaturalitate', but not 'constat de non supernaturalitate', though Mgr. Ratko Peric, the current Ordinary of Mostar, has stated he feels the second expression applies as well. I write this because the first statement leaves open the possibility of further inquiry for the investigation of demonic activity. At least that is all that I see as possible, since clearly the 'Gospa' is not appearing there based on what has been discovered in the three commissions which investigated the events (for a total of around 6-8 years).
It should be noted that the Holy See - contrary to what some have tried to deduce - has always supported the conclusions of the local Bishops and reference their statements as the official position of the Church. The Holy See is not investigating Medjugorje currently, nor is the local Bishop of Mostar, because they see no need to investigate further. What is the official position of the Church? Simple. There is and has been nothing supernatural happening at Medjugorje concerning apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Following, no official pilgrimages may be organized for "Our Lady of Medjugorje". Individuals may go there for whatever reasons, but the alleged events may not be preached from the pulpit.
The official magisterial position of the Church concerning these events has been every bit as clear as it has been ignored.
This is a quick answer coming from memory, but I have little doubt that if you were to research this further from official sources, you would quickly agree that these alleged events are false without a shred of doubt. I say this from having read your posts over the years, witnessing your knowledge, wisdom, and sobriety. If you could get a copy of the English translations of the close to 300 hours of taped interviews that the late Bishop Zanic, then Ordinary of Mostar, had with the then children at the beginning in 1981-83, that alone would convince you. The lies, contradictions, ridiculous statements allegedly made by the BVM, etc. A further study of the politics of the dispute between the Bosnian Franciscans against the secular clergy, etc. ( oh, I could go on and on and on...) - it reads as a tragicomedy. The practical joke hypothesis is not nearly as impossible as you suggest.
My $ 0.02 is this: Medugorje shares everything in common with every false apparition/miracle going back to Simon Magus, and nothing in common with all authenticate miraculous phenomena going back to the Patriarchs under the Old Law.
March 1996: CDF letter to Bp. Taverdet
SACRED CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
Vatican City, March 23, 1996, Prot. No. 154/81-01985>p? Your Excellency,
In your letter of February 14, 1996 you inquired what is the present position of the Church regarding the alleged "apparitions in Medjugorje" and whether it is permitted to the Catholic faith to go there for pilgrimage.
In reference to that it is my honor to make known to you that, regarding the authenticity of the apparitions in question, the Bishops of the former Yugoslavia confirmed in their Declaration of April 10, 1991 published in Zadar:
". . .On the basis of investigation up till now it cannot be established that one is dealing with supernatural apparitions and revelations. However, the numerous gatherings of the faithful from different parts of the world, who are coming to Medjugorje prompted both by motives of belief and certain other motives, require the attention and pastoral care in the first place of the bishop of the diocese and of the other bishops with him so that in Medjugorje and everything related to it a healthy devotion toward the Blessed Virgin Mary would be promoted in conformity with the teaching of the Church.
For that purpose the bishops shall issue separate appropriate liturgical-pastoral directives. Likewise by means of their Commission they shall further follow and investigate the total event in Medjugorje."
The result from this in what is precisely said is that official pilgrimages to Medjugorje, understood as a place of authentic Marian apparitions, are not permitted to be organized either on the parish or on the diocesan level, because that would be in contradiction to what the Bishops of former Yugoslavia affirmed in their forementioned Declaration.
Kindly accept, your Excellency, an expression of my profoundly devoted affection!
+ Tarcisio Bertone
To the contrary, I've seen various articles saying that he has intervened favorably on its behalf. Specifically, that he informed the former Bishop Zanic to cease his negative media campaign over the apparitions and that he dissolved Bishop Zanic's commission and ordered the Yugoslav Bishop's Conference to set up a new one.
The problem here lies with the "various articles". Both statements are absolutely false. I really think that there are some people so taken in by Medjugorje that they are not willing to take an objective look at the evidence, much less official Church documents. Just do a google search of Medjugorje and see how many sites parrot off of each other - and when the info is wrong as in the above....
I am aware of only 5 written interventions of the Holy See concerning Medjugorje over the years, all of them coming from the CDF. The first in '85 whereby the Italian Bishops where asked to not organize official pilgrimages there. The second is above with the third being essentially the same letter to another Bishop. The fourth was a similar letter in '98 to I believe a German Bishop.
Finally a statement in '98 by the then Prefect of the CDF, who is our current Pope, that all the many statements attributed to either him or his Holiness Pope John Paul II, many of which were presented to him in memo form by some Germans, were "frei erfunden" "complete inventions" [I think that's right - it is document and official]
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