Posted on 07/01/2006 3:31:56 PM PDT by NYer
WASHINGTON (CNS) -- The U.S. Catholic population rose by more than a million last year, but the church registered declines in Catholic school enrollments and in sacramental practice, according to figures in the 2006 Official Catholic Directory. The 2,043-page tome, also known as the Kenedy Directory after its New Jersey publishers' imprint, came out at the end of June. It lists all ordained U.S. Catholic clergy, parishes, missions, schools, hospitals and other institutions. It also gives statistical data on the church by diocese and nationally. Its national figures include data from Puerto Rico, a U.S. commonwealth, and U.S. territories overseas such as the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa and Guam. Based on annual reports submitted by each diocese, the directory is supposed to be a snapshot of what the church looked like on Jan. 1, 2006. The Catholic population rose about 1.3 million last year, to 69,135,254, the directory said.
Good news, Caravaggio. National Catholic Reporter did a survey which defined "Catholic" extremely loosely. While their definition resulted in inflated numbers supporting their left-wing, apostate goals, they still found that 35-40% believed in the divine presence. Since only about half of so-called Catholics ever go to mass, and presuming the ones who believe in the divine presence go to mass, most churchgoers believe in the divine presence.
>>Not in Los Angeles or other heavily Hispanic cities. <<
You're just making presumptions. I've had friends move to LA and be baffled by the fact that although the place is predominantly Catholic, they see very few Hispanics at mass; the Spanish-language masses are mostly empty.
I don't know if you have a different experience, but your comment "or other heavilu Hispanic cities" suggests you are talking from presumption.
According to Catholic-hierarchy.org, LA is only 37% Catholic. In 1950, before the illegals took over, it was 18%. Compare to San Diego, which has very few illegals comparably, which is 30% Catholic, up from 25% in 1970.
These numbers are very consistent with Catholicism's growth in areas outside the original Catholic strongholds in the Northeast & Upper Midwest areas.
Ooops:
"although the place is predominantly Catholic, "
Should read:
"although the place is predominantly Hispanic, "
You believe what you want to believe.I will not argue.
sitetest - I think you're right about surveys not telling the full story. That statistic I came up with (re: 25% of Catholics believing in the Real Presence) was from a talk given by a priest that I heard about 2 years ago.
I tried to do a search myself on this subject and came up with this (an article which pretty much agrees with you that studies can't always be trusted).
http://www.catholiclubbock.org/eucharist.htm
I come from a pretty large family - all Catholic - and from my experience, maybe about 60% believe, although only about 30% actually go to Mass, which i find strange because if you REALLY believed that you were going to meet JESUS, why wouldn't you be DYING to go to Mass???
Come on now, this is FR. We talk to each other.
You made a pretty bold assertion without any supporting reference.
I'll bet if we look long enough, we could find something supporting your statement.
My own experience is that one reason the Mexican and other Central American illegals left home is to escape the restrictions of their own culture. Church and family are a thing of the past for them.
However, I do have to give them one thing. When they do show up in large groups at Mass, there are a lot of people sitting out Communion. They probably understand the reality of Catholic teaching better than someone like John Kerry.
What wonderful news! Praise the Lord! Is Mr. Marple Methodist, too? You must be a very powerful witness! Have you had any Heavenly Help along the way (specific saints praying with you)?
Dear dangus,
I guess what happens with Hispanic immigrants probably varies widely from place to place.
In the Archdiocese of Washington, many parishes have Spanish (or, to a lesser extent, Portuguese) Masses because of the influx of Hispanic immigrants. Large numbers of these folks are church-going.
The parish in which I was married is an example. In the 1950s and 1960s, the surrounding area was developed and built up. It was largely white, and had a significant white Catholic population. The parish was built in the 1950s, and served the Catholic population adequately for decades. In the 1970s and 1980s, the demographics changed, and the area's black population became dominant. The demographics of the parish changed some, but Mass attendance didn't increase.
In the 1990s, the area started going heavily Hispanic.
Although the overall population of the community hasn't increased much (at least, no significant new housing has been built in 30 or more years), the parish is now bursting at the seams. Each weekend, every Mass has overflow crowds. It's my understanding that they haul out loudspeakers so that folks can stand outside and listen to Mass.
I suspect that Catholics now make up a higher percentage of the local population, thus accounting for the increase in Mass attendance, but it appears that these Hispanic Catholics attend Mass at roughly the same levels as the previous white and black Catholics, as Mass attendance has risen concomitant with the rise in the Catholic population of the area.
sitetest
I live in the archdiocese of Washington. One mass in six is a Spanish mass, and those masses tend to be half the size of English masses. In Arlington, where there is an even higher ratio of Latin Americans to Catholics, maybe 30, 40, or even 50%, maybe 5, 10 percent of churchgoers are Catholic. No telling why: My church's Spanish mass is a pathetic joke. I think the pastor will soon make sure that the sanctuary is filled with chickens and tecquila in his disgusting condescension. Hey, the Spanish who go to Catholic mass, want CATHOLIC mass, not some sick, insulting barnyard scene looking more like the cats from Speedy Gonzalez cartoon.
I would easily suppose Latinos at mass in Arlington, despite outnumbering Philippinos 10:1 outside the church doors, are easily outnumbered by Philippinos inside the church. Good parishes like St. Agnes, St. James, etc., are crammed full of Philippinos.
>> Philippinos 10:1 <<
Anyone who looks up the Letter to the Philippinos, chapter 10, verse 1 gets thrown out. =^D
Dear dangus,
As I said, I suppose it varies widely from place to place.
You and I are trading anecdotes. I'd like to see some hard research that looked at Mass attendance at a fairly granular level.
I also think that we're just guessing when we say that folks who immigrate stop going to Mass because they want to be free from the strictures of their old culture. I wonder what Mass attendance is like in Mexico. I wouldn't be surprised it isn't very high, considering how brutally the Church was (and even still is, to a lesser extent) oppressed in Mexico for such a long period of time, or considering that many of the same secularizing effects we see in our culture could be acting on Mexican culture, as well.
As well, most of Latin America suffers from a priest shortage that makes us look comparatively "wealthy" in that regard. I wonder how many folks are emigrating from communities where five Masses per weekend at the local parish church just doesn't happen, and where it might be more likely that Mass happens once a month from a circuit-riding priest.
Mexico, according to www.catholic-hierarchy.org, has about 123 million Catholics, and about 15,000 priests. About 1 priest for every 8,000 Catholics.
We have about 70 million Catholics and about 45,000 priests. About 1 priest for every 1,500 Catholics.
I googled for a minute, and came up easily with only one link, which indicates that just in the last ten years, reported Mass attendance in Mexico has declined from nearly 50% to only about 33%.
Here's the link:
http://cara.georgetown.edu/bulletin/international.htm
As self-reported Mass attendance is usually higher than actual Mass attendance, that would suggest that attendance in Mexico is perhaps only in the 20s%. Not very high to start.
sitetest
Well, I'll tell you what... any illegal who doesn't go to mass in Mexico isn't going to come up here and officially register up here.
Dear dangus,
"Well, I'll tell you what... any illegal who doesn't go to mass in Mexico isn't going to come up here and officially register up here."
LOL! I suspect you're right! In fact, I'd say that even those who DID attend in Mexico, but come here illegally, may be hesitant to register at their local parish.
Attendance at Mass, however, is a different story.
sitetest
just a note - under the Mexican Anti-Clerical laws, the Goverment decided how many priests a diocese could have. The laws were just put aside very recently. Since then there has been an improvement in the number of seminarians. I don't have the most recent numbers, but in 1971 (under the old law) there were 2,264 seminarians in Mexico. In 2001, there were 6,919 seminarians. And I think the number is growing since then.
Dear Nihil Obstat,
Thanks for that hopeful statistic!
Most folks just don't realize how brutal the Mexican government has traditionally been toward Catholicism and Catholics.
sitetest
In the interests of fairness, I ran across these blurbs today. Just a wee error in the Boston count:
Boston, New Orleans statistics off in new Official Catholic Directory
WASHINGTON (CNS) -- For people who look to annual statistics to discern church trends, the statistical tables at the end of the 2006 Official Catholic Directory can be misleading. The 2,043-page tome, also known as the Kenedy Directory after its New Jersey publishers' imprint, came out at the end of June. Because of the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina last August, the New Orleans Archdiocese said it could not provide accurate year-end statistics, so the entire statistical column under New Orleans is blank. And a transposition of two figures for the Boston Archdiocese led to an overcount of about 2.1 million in the total number of Catholics in the country: The directory shows the total population in the archdiocese as 1,845,846 and the Catholic population as 3,974,846. The larger figure should be the total population and the smaller figure the Catholic population. Nationwide the directory reported a net increase of about 1.3 million Catholics in the United States and its possessions last year. But if one subtracts the 2.1 million overcount in Boston and adds the roughly 500,000 Catholics New Orleans had before the hurricane, the net result is a decline of about 300,000 Catholics.
- - -
Most U.S. Catholic figures show decline
WASHINGTON (CNS) -- The U.S. Catholic population apparently rose by more than a million last year according to figures in the 2006 Official Catholic Directory, but it actually may have fallen once a correction is made for the plainly erroneous figures for the Boston Archdiocese. The 2006 figures are also skewed by a lack of any data from the New Orleans Archdiocese, which was devastated by Hurricane Katrina last Aug. 29 and unable to provide statistical data for this year's directory. Even with adjustments to account for lack of data from New Orleans, the U.S. church clearly registered declines in Catholic school enrollments and in almost every area of sacramental practice between 2005 and 2006, according to the directory. The 2,043-page tome, also known as the Kenedy Directory after its New Jersey publishers' imprint, came out at the end of June. It lists all ordained U.S. Catholic clergy, parishes, missions, schools, hospitals and other institutions. It also gives statistical data on the church by diocese and nationally.
The sad tale of the tape:
"the U.S. church clearly registered declines in Catholic school enrollments and in almost every area of sacramental practice between 2005 and 2006,"
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