Posted on 06/29/2006 5:36:14 PM PDT by NYer
ROME, JUNE 29, 2006 (Zenit.org).- An Egyptian Muslim and deputy director of a prominent Italian newspaper suggested that Mary could be the figure who brings Christians and Muslims together.
Magdi Allam of Il Corriere della Sera spoke to ZENIT about the appeal he launched in the pages of the national daily newspaper to Muslims living in Italy to visit the Marian shrines in their host country.
The journalist said that he is convinced that the Virgin Mary is a meeting point between Christians and Muslims.
"Mary is a figure present in the Koran, which dedicates an entire sura [chapter ed.n.] to her and mentions her some thirty times. In Muslim countries there are Marian shrines that are the object of veneration and pilgrimage by Christian and Muslim faithful," he said.
"Therefore, I believe that if this happens in Muslim countries, why can't it happen in a Christian country, especially in a historical phase in which we need to define symbols, values and figures that unite religions, spiritualities and cultures?" he asked.
In Allam's opinion, "the Marian pilgrimage of Loreto -- Italy's National Shrine -- could represent a moment of meeting and spiritual gathering between Muslims and Catholics, around Mary, a religious figure that is venerated by both religions."
Vittorio Messori, author of book-interviews with Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now Benedict XVI), also wrote in Il Corriere della Sera on June 15 in support of Allam.
He said that the dialogue between Christians and Muslims "can begin afresh from Mary."
And why you prefer a canon established in the year 85 by Pharisees who rejected Christ is beyond me. Luther, of his own authority, did it because it does support the doctrine of purgatory.
How do you square this with your post #36
Were Jesus born of a sinner as some claim, that would mean either
a) the Savior could not save His own Mother from contracting sin or
b) He refused to honor His Mother in every way he could.
So Jesus would be either a weak Savior or a trangressor of His own Commandment to "Honor your father and your mother" (Exodus 20:12). The Immaculate Conception is clearly a belief which exalts Jesus!
Genesis 3:15 is a prophecy of the Messiah ("Seed of the woman") and His Virgin Mother (the "woman"). Notice that God says "I will put enmity between you (the serpent) and the woman", that is, between Satan and Mary! God foretold in the Garden that He would put enmity between the Devil and the Mother of the Messiah. Satan would be enemies not only with Mary's Son, but with Mary herself!
Now the Bible says that sin makes us enemies of God (Mt 12:30; Ro 5:8-10; James 4:4) and children of the Devil (Jn 8:44; I Jn 3:10). A sinner is not Satan's enemy, but his ally--even his "child", or seed! Were Mary ever a sinner, she would not be the devil's enemy, as God had decreed; she would have been the devil's daughter and the enemy of God-the enemy of her own Son! God's promise to put enmity between her and the ancient Serpent would then be a lie!
Yet God cannot lie, and His word always comes to pass (Is 55:10). So He did indeed put enmity between Satan and the Woman by preserving the Woman from all sin, original and actual. Mary is not a child of the Devil; by God's Will she is a daughter of God from the beginning of her existence and the ally of her Seed against the evil one.
In Luke 1:28, the angel Gabriel greets Mary as "full of grace". Protestant translations often render this as "highly favored", but this is a weak, inaccurate translation. The Greek term here is kecharitomene, a perfect present participle of the verb charitoo, which denotes "grace". A perfect participle indicates an action completed in the past with existing results, and a present participle denotes continuous or repeated action.
So kecharitomene means "you who were and continue to be full of and completed in grace". Now grace is not mere unmerited favor, but God's gift of spiritual life and communion with Himself. Sin and grace are opposed (Romans 5:20-21), and grace saves us from sin (Eph 2:5, 8). So Mary's fullness of grace indicates a complete absence of sin. Thus Luke 1:28 provides a second hint at Mary's sinlessness.
We also see a type of Mary's sinlessness in the holiness of the Ark of the Covenant. The original ark was clearly a holy vessel. God meticulously outlined the construction (Ex 25:10-22) and the Holy Spirit actually inspired the artisan who formed it (31:2-3)! It was made from the finest, purest materials and consecrated to the service of God in the Tabernacle. The Ark had to be perfect and holy, worthy to bear the awesome Presence of the Holy One of Israel. It was so holy only a few could touch it (Num 4:15, 2 Sam 6:2-7).
If such an inanimate object could be so holy, how much more holy must Mary have been? In order to be a worthy vessel for the all-holy God, she had to be utterly holy. Like the original ark, she was set apart for that sacred task from the beginning of her existence. This is why Jesus preserved her from contracting original sin by applying the sin-cleansing merits of His Precious Blood to her beforehand.
Christ is the Holy One of Israel in the flesh. The Bible tells us over and over again about the utter Holiness of God. It even says that His name is "Holy" (Is 57:15); and in Hebrew thought ones name expressed ones essence. If God is Holiness Itself, how could He dwell in an unholy vessel? How could the One Who demands holiness from His people (Lev 19:2) and particularly from the priests who minister before Him (Ex 28:6) dwell for nine months in an unholy woman!
Finally, the Bible says "Holiness becometh thine house, O Lord" (Ps 93:5). Mary was the Lord's "house" for nine months! If holiness becometh God's house, how could Mary not be holy? She, like the Tabernacle of old, had to be utterly pure and holy, completely sanctified and consecrated to the Lord, for she was to be the living Holy of holies, the sacred dwelling of the all-holy God.
Taken together, these passages present a powerful biblical case for Mary's sinlessness. God promised to make her the enemy of the father of sin, the angel declared her to be embued with spiritual life, and her role in bearing the Holy One necessitated that she be utterly holy, like the ark or Tabernacle of old.
Thank you for the post, link and description. Would that catholics were more familiar with the catechism as you.
You're one of the smarter RCs on this forum. Discernment counts. 8~)
Bless you!
"He said that the dialogue between Christians and Muslims "can begin afresh from Mary.""
Satan really is subtle. Dialogue proposes two or more views in opposition to each other. There is no common ground regarding why Mary is venerated. She is the Mother of God.
~Not the mother of simply another prophet.
In the Magnificat, Mary speaks of "God, my Savior." If Mary were sinless, she would have no need for a Savior. No where in the Bible does it say that anyone was sinless except Jesus.
She was saved at her conception, not after like the rest of us.
To Jesus through Mary.
"She was saved at her conception, not after like the rest of us."
Luke 1:47, "And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." Mary acknowledged her need of a Saviour.
Matt.1:21, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."
Luke 2:11, "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."
There is only one Saviour and He saves from sin. Mary acknowledged her sin and her need of a Saviour.
That's your interpretation, based on your theological viewpoint. It isn't necessarily the case.
No, that's what the scripture says.
The North is full of tangled things and texts and aching eyes,
And dead is all the innocence of anger and surprise,
And Christian killeth Christian in a narrow dusty room,
And Christian dreadeth Christ that hath a newer face of doom,
And Christian hateth Mary that God kissed in Galilee,—
But Don John of Austria is riding to the sea.
Still rings true today.
Hmmm, and Paul preached to whom?
Catholics do not believe that Mary had no need of a Savior! Jesus did indeed save Mary; by virtue of the foreseen merits of His death on Calvary, He saved her from ever contracting original sin in the first place. As a daughter of Adam, Mary would have contracted original sin like the rest of us had God not intervened. But because Jesus chose her for His Mother, He sanctified her at her conception, making her a Holy of Holies just for Himself. So Christ our God is truly Mary's Savior, as the Bible says; and her Immaculate Conception does not contradict Luke 1:47 at all!
"And Christian hateth Mary that God kissed in Galilee,—"
I don't "HATE" her. I simply do NOT pray to her or elevate her in a position higher than any other SINNER. Mary is just another sinner in need of Christ for eternal life too.
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