Mary a Meeting Point of Cultures, Says Muslim - Encourages Pilgrimages to Marian Shrines

Zenit News Agency ^ | June 29, 2006

[NYer]

ROME, JUNE 29, 2006 (Zenit.org).- An Egyptian Muslim and deputy director of a prominent Italian newspaper suggested that Mary could be the figure who brings Christians and Muslims together.

Magdi Allam of Il Corriere della Sera spoke to ZENIT about the appeal he launched in the pages of the national daily newspaper to Muslims living in Italy to visit the Marian shrines in their host country.

The journalist said that he is convinced that the Virgin Mary is a meeting point between Christians and Muslims.

"Mary is a figure present in the Koran, which dedicates an entire sura [chapter ed.n.] to her and mentions her some thirty times. In Muslim countries there are Marian shrines that are the object of veneration and pilgrimage by Christian and Muslim faithful," he said.

"Therefore, I believe that if this happens in Muslim countries, why can't it happen in a Christian country, especially in a historical phase in which we need to define symbols, values and figures that unite religions, spiritualities and cultures?" he asked.

In Allam's opinion, "the Marian pilgrimage of Loreto -- Italy's National Shrine -- could represent a moment of meeting and spiritual gathering between Muslims and Catholics, around Mary, a religious figure that is venerated by both religions."

Vittorio Messori, author of book-interviews with Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now Benedict XVI), also wrote in Il Corriere della Sera on June 15 in support of Allam.

He said that the dialogue between Christians and Muslims "can begin afresh from Mary."

[blue-duncan]

"Mary's role in redemption is to be saved just as all sinners are saved by trusting Christ for her salvation. She is dead now and serves no useful purpose to those on earth except for her role historically as the mother of Jesus."

"However, you might want to know that the vast majority of Christians living and dead might not agree with you."

Point out in the scriptures where the statement is wrong. The fact that spiritually the dead in Christ are alive with Him in heaven does not take away from the fact, no where in the scriptures does it say Mary has anything to do with redemption except historically as the mother of Jesus.

[rogator]

"Point out in the scriptures where the statement is wrong."

Point out in the scriptures where the statement is right.

The Church determined which writings were the word of God and which were not.
This same Church founded by Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, has venerated His mother for nearly 2000 years.
You would never even have seen the scriptures had not several monks (who by the way venerated the Mother of God) copied and recopied them for us.

[blue-duncan]

So you have no scripture backing up the statement that "Mary's role in redemption is to lead ALL souls to her Son".

I gave you the scriptures that state it is the job of the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ, convict of sin and lead sinners to Christ for salvation.

[rogator]

"Mary's role in redemption is to be saved just as all sinners are saved by trusting Christ for her salvation. She is dead now and serves no useful purpose to those on earth except for her role historically as the mother of Jesus."

This is YOUR statement which I was discussing.
Show me the proof for this statement either in scripture or in the historical traditions, beliefs, or practices of the Church.

[Iscool]

Why not? You'll ask some schlep on FR or at your church to pray for you, why not the mother of your Lord Christ?

Cuz she's dead...Dead people don't pray so good...Besides, it's againt my religion to try to communicate with the dead...

[annie laurie]

I am not Catholic, and one of the typical non-Catholic questions is always in reference to the immaculate conception of Mary.

I finally understood the Catholic point of view when reading this very nicely-done article:

http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

"Consider an analogy: Suppose a man falls into a deep pit, and someone reaches down to pull him out. The man has been "saved" from the pit. Now imagine a woman walking along, and she too is about to topple into the pit, but at the very moment that she is to fall in, someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been saved from the pit, but in an even better way: She was not simply taken out of the pit, she was prevented from getting stained by the mud in the first place. This is the illustration Christians have used for a thousand years to explain how Mary was saved by Christ. By receiving Christ’s grace at her conception, she had his grace applied to her before she was able to become mired in original sin and its stain.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that she was "redeemed in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son" (CCC 492). She has more reason to call God her Savior than we do, because he saved her in an even more glorious manner!"

[Iscool]

Ahem, a meeting point between Catholic Christians, Orthodox Christians, many Protestant Christians, and Muslims.

I can't see where a born-again, Holy Spirit filled Christian would even consider having fellowship with a muzlim under any circumstances...And it's clear Paul the Apostle felt the same way...

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

My advice is to:

Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

I know a lot of you Catholics are saved...Don't fall for this deception...

[Iscool]

Mary's role in redemption is to lead ALL souls to her Son. Get the Muslims to see Mary's role and you've conquered their religious beliefs. It's really just that simple.

I can't imagine why they would believe that...It's certainly not biblical...

Just remember, at the same time, it's their goal to convert YOU to islam...

[blue-duncan]

These are just some of the scriptures that state the general principle that all have sinned, and Mary is included in all since there are no qualifiers, and in need of a savior.

Romans 3:10,"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

Romans 3:23, "23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"

Acts 4:10-12,"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Mary is physically dead now or should be.

1 Tim. 2:5-6, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

Heb. 4:14-16, "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

So let's see, we have access to grace through Jesus to whom we can come without a mediator since He Himself is our mediator between the Father and us; and we can come to him boldly to find grace to help in time of need. Now it stands to reason if you can come to the boss directly with your problems why would you want to go through any lesser created being? And since there is no scriptural basis for Mary's having anything to do with our redemption except historically being the mother of Jesus, why make up this superstition? What does it add to what Jesus has already accomplished for our salvation?

[reductio]

"The journalist said that he is convinced that the Virgin Mary is a meeting point between Christians and Muslims."

Ahem, a meeting point between Catholics and Muslims.

You might find this an interesting statement, being that it comes from a Catholic:

I agree with you in part. You correctly distinguish between what commonly passes for "Christian" and what is "Catholic" by definition, and that this definition of "Christian" which is commonly used is not "Catholic". All too often Catholics assume that they are a smaller circle, or group, encompassed within a larger circle or group of "Christians"

This is not at all the case, as you rightly discern. However, this is where you and I might disagree: the reason I say so in agreement with you is not the same as your reasons, because I, along with the perennial teachings of the Catholic Church, would say that Christianity IS Catholicism, and Catholicism IS Christianity.

Those, therefore, who refer to Catholics as "Catholic Christians" are not putting forth the true teaching of the Catholic Church, but are rather uttering a mere redundancy. It's an American thing, but it isn't Catholic.

[reductio]

This statement of NYer's, however, is the complete truth.

[mockingbyrd]

"Mary has any other role in redemption other than that of Jesus' mother"

That's a pretty big role!!!

I, as a Christian, believe in eternal life and believe that Mary, just as any true believer, is in Heaven worshiping her Son. I also belive, as did those at the wedding feast at Cana, that she can intercede for me as well as, if not better, any human on earth can.

God is all powerful and all merciful. He can bring any one to Him in anyway He chooses. The world first knew its Savior through His mother. It does not surprise me that once again, God chooses to bring people to Him through His mother again. Just as God works through those living on earth, so too does He work with those living in Heaven.

However He chooses to extend His grace and mercy, I thank and praise Him.

[FJ290]

Romans 3:10,"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

But.. your KJV says there are those that are righteous. St. Luke 1:5-6:

"THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."

Mary is physically dead now or should be.

So? Are you saying that she isn't in Heaven?

[mockingbyrd]

"I can't see where a born-again, Holy Spirit filled Christian would even consider having fellowship with a muzlim under any circumstances"

Because they too are children of God and Jesus Christ died to save them. It is a tragedy that they do not know to call God Father and to accept Jesus Christ and their Lord and Savior. We have been given the gift of faith, it is our duty to preach the Gospel.

[dollars_for_dogma]

"Cuz she's dead...Dead people don't pray so good...Besides, it's againt my religion to try to communicate with the dead..."

Do you include the holy souls in Heaven that our Lord has chosen to be with Him forever?

The Book of Maccabees explains that we are to pray for the souls of the faithful departed.

[dollars_for_dogma]

"2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

Well, we Catholics continue to keep company with you.

[RobbyS]

Mary is not "dead". She does not cease to be the mother of Jesus Christ anymore than your mother will ever crease to be your mother. The difference is who her child is and who your mother's child is.

[RobbyS]

"... except historically as the mother of Jesus." And what is that "historic" role? If we look at the two chapters of Luke, we see that this is far more significant than the role of mother of being the mother of Isaac or Samuel. "And the Word became flesh." as John puts it. Mary is an integral part of the mystery of the incarnation.

[Iscool]

Well, we Catholics continue to keep company with you.

Ha! Not all Catholics are saved...And even tho you are taught that non Catholics are NOT saved, I know better...However, not all Episcopalians nor Baptists are saved either...

The point is, no Christian has any business having fellowship with a muzlim...No muzlims are saved...And not only that, but they have an obligation to convert you to their religion, have you denounce Jesus Christ which is denouncing God and if they can't, they are to kill you...

If you are saved, you are filled with the Holy Spirit...No muzlim has the Holy Spirit...

[Iscool]

The Book of Maccabees explains that we are to pray for the souls of the faithful departed.

The Jews of the Old Testament as well as modern Jews did/do not accept the Apocrapha as inspired writings...Why the Roman church does is beyond me...