Posted on 06/27/2006 10:00:12 AM PDT by Ebenezer
Cymbal, Cymbals: a pecussive musical instrument. Two kinds of cymbals are mentioned in (Psalms 150:5) "loud cymbals" or castagnettes , and "high-sounding cymbals." The former consisted of our small plates of brass or of some other hard metal; two plates were attached to each hand of the performer, and were struck together to produce a great noise. The latter consisted of two larger plates, on held in each hand and struck together as an accompaniment to other instruments. Cymbals were used not only in the temple but for military purposes, and also by Hebrew women as a musical accompaniment to their national dances. Both kinds of cymbals are still common in the East
Symbols
1. Something that represents something else by association, resemblance, or convention, especially a material object used to represent something invisible. See Synonyms at sign.
2. A printed or written sign used to represent an operation, element, quantity, quality, or relation, as in mathematics or music.
3. Psychology. An object or image that an individual unconsciously uses to represent repressed thoughts, feelings, or impulses: a phallic symbol.
From this site:
http://www.piney.com/Mu1Cor13.html
1 Corinthians 13:1-2 - Sounding Brass Tinkling Cymbals
Sounding brass and tinkling cymbals: Peter warned against casual treatment of Paul's writings; Paul warned against speaking in tongues or pagan prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5) and prophetesses. In 1 Corinthians he equates the sounding to the Familiar Spirit which we first saw after Israel's rejection of God resulted in the musical prophesiers from the Philistine high places. We will look at the classical Greek writers to understand the connection between echoing or ringing musical instruments and the prophesying, often by women, as a way to be able to speak the language from the gods or from angels.
We believe that Paul outlawed instrumental music as a worship device. He called them lifeless instruments and carnal weapons or instruments and associated them with the instruments of warfare. He as well defined away pagan styles of singing and removed external melody and put it in the heart.
The guitar mass has to be one of the stoopidest ideas the liberals came up with after Vat2.
*Then, you oppose Divinely-Constituted Authority.
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
18 "Thou art Peter"... As St. Peter, by divine revelation, here made a solemn profession of his faith of the divinity of Christ; so in recompense of this faith and profession, our Lord here declares to him the dignity to which he is pleased to raise him: viz., that he to whom he had already given the name of Peter, signifying a rock, St. John 1. 42, should be a rock indeed, of invincible strength, for the support of the building of the church; in which building he should be, next to Christ himself, the chief foundation stone, in quality of chief pastor, ruler, and governor; and should have accordingly all fulness of ecclesiastical power, signified by the keys of the kingdom of heaven.
*IOW, if the Pope says, "Crashing cymbals are out and chant is in," then who am I to oppose his authority?
I don't read anywhere in Scripture where I (or you) was given the Keys
Nothing there about half the stuff we have today. But we still have it.
Psst. I'm a Protestant, so I say that as a compliment. :-)
Generally speaking, rock music (or at least the "quality" rock music), is deeply rooted in anti-establishment or anti-authority ideals. How stupid for the Church, or ANY insititution for that matter that relies on an authoritarian system, to adopt it.
It's you know, the common sense that our forefathers used to rely on to solve problems. It doesn't take someone with a Ph.D. to figure this stuff out!!!
BTTT!
Anytime you're ready, but call at least an hour before you arrive.
We'll have to clear a pathway--"Guest Welcome"--and all that.
It's not whether they are "musical instruments."
The authorities in the Church actually DO have a right (and duty) to prescribe what is fitting for Mass. Protestants don't have that kind of structure; Catholics do. (Many US Catholics either will not admit that, or simply ignore it...)
Now some musical authorities simply ban the guitar outright. I wouldn't, if I have a vote--because a good 12-string accompaniment of say, "Silent Night" would be neat. Same-o with a 12-string accompaniment adapted to the Bach/Gounod "Ave Maria." These are examples. There are more out there.
But the guitar is tricky, because it has connotations; and one must work directly against those connotations to legitimize the use of that particular instrument.
By the way, Pius XII authorized "orchestral instruments" for the Mass in late 1955. Mozart and his patron/Bishop were NOT in conformance with Church rules, either.
I don't think I'm the one who is imposing anything. In fact, I oppose imposing...which is the thrust of this thread.
PS...what is so "holy" about Gregorian Chants? Couldn't you say that religious hip-hop would be a modern day equivalent?
By jove, I think you've got it. Scripture IS my authority, and if Scripture says I should praise God with loud cymbals, then I think I'm OK.
Now, the issue is preferences. I prefer NOT to worship with 16th Century music. If you do, fine with me, but don't impose your preferences on me...(see #112 above).
If you are anxious to be a victim at least join the Church you think offends you. Then, victimhood would make sens
He is an expert on Sacred Christian Music. He has read more books on that topic than the number of times Ted Kennedy has been in a bar.
Your question about Chant and hip-hop indicates to me you are somewhat out-matched on the subject :)
You overstate both my knowledge and # of books read on the topic. If I were THAT far ahead of Kennedy's boozing frequency, I'd be smart enough to keep my mouth shut...
But thanks for the props; hope my posts are generally helpful.
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