Thanks for the detailed explanation of the English situation. Lay investiture was a serious problem and first reached a crisis point on the Continent, even in places like Spain, in the 11th century. Obviously, for various strategic reasons, a cozy relationship had developed between the kings and the Church, with the royals feeling they ran the roost. This was clearly something the Church could not tolerate; it was considered an abuse, like simony, and interestingly enough, the reform attempts were often coupled with the spread of the Roman (or Frankish) Rite, that is, they were part of a centralizing movement attempting to instill visible unity and discipline and bring the Church under the control of the religious authorities alone. IIRC, England was rather resistant to the new rite, although eventually it was installed.
The State has always salivated over the Church, seeing a real opportunity for consolidation of power, and the Church has always had to struggle to assert its independence. Establishing the ground rules was slow going and England, in particular, seems to have been problematic all along. Germany was also difficult; I have often wondered if it was because these two countries did not speak a Latin-root language and thus felt a little more adversarial to Rome. Be that as it may, I can understand the historical/political forces that were at play.
In any case, I suppose there will be all sorts of changes in the works now. I really don't see how the Anglicans are going to be able tolerate this, but perhaps that was ultimately the intention of the cabal that elected this woman. They may regard the Anglican Church as somewhat of a drag on their "progressive" movement. I read in another post here that there was a huge gay Episcopalian conference last week, and those present (including the dread Vicki Gene) were commenting on the fact that the Episcopal Church was dwindling, except for its gay membership, which was growing rapidly. So I imagine that the Episcopalians will be only too happy to cut their ties to the Anglican Church. This is going to be very painful for many Episcoplians, who have done nothing to deserve this.
"....those present (including the dread Vicki Gene) were commenting on the fact that the Episcopal Church was dwindling, except for its gay membership, which was growing rapidly."
Utter nonsense! Homosexuals make up a MINISCULE percentage of the population (something between 2 & 10% depending on whose propaganda you're listening to) & of those numbers, an even MORE MINISCULE number have never stepped foot in a church & never will irregardless how "open & affirming" it may be! If memory serves, The Episcopal Church has lost, on average, 38,000 members every year for the past 10 years & the number of members & whole parishes who've left since 2003 & the consecration of Vicky Gene has to be double that figure. There's no bloody way that the ECUSA has made up more than 1/10th of 1% of its lost membership from homosexuals who've suddenly found religion.
I detest people who throw out bald-faced lies like this, knowing full well that the average person won't ask them to back up those statements with facts. But of course, we all know who the Father of Lies is. Since he's now firmly in control of the ECUSA, we can expect nothing less than bald-faced lies from this pack of boobs.
I'm Episcopalian and intend to remain in my local parish.
I've just decided to ignore the National Church completely.
As of this morning, I dropped them from my prayer list. I feel bad about it, but they are obviously intent on alienating the conservative branch. It's really stupid because about half (or slightly less) of Episcopalians are pretty darn conservative.
England organized as a state centuries before her neighbors on the continent. Alfred the Great's kingdom in the 900's had roughly the same borders as Elizabeth II's today. Alfred's Capetian counterpart in Paris was titular king and only ruled the Ile-de-France. Basically, England had been up and running long before she was grafted into the Roman Church in 1066. Until that year, England considered herself in communion with but not under the authority of the Bishop of Rome. The Orthodox recognize the year of the Norman Conquest and Roman takeover, and not 1054, as the year they broke with Anglicanism.
When dealing with England, the Pope was not dealing with a loose patchwork of duchies and principalities (as was the case with France, Italy, and the Holy Roman Empire). Rather, he was dealing with a well organized and sophisticated nation state that was forging its own national identity much more quickly than continental states. From the Norman Conquest to the Spanish Armada, England and Rome never had good relations.
The 1549 Prayer Book is a translation ofthe Sarum Rite developed over the years in Salisbury, England.