From an actual website:
Keep Jesus from crying attend church every week!"
What a guy hears: "Can't we just talk? We never spend any time together.:
Posted on 06/13/2006 6:25:48 AM PDT by hiho hiho
"We don't have to have hand-to-hand combat during the worship service to get men there," Murrow said. "We just have to start speaking [their language], use the metaphors they understand and create an environment that feels masculine to them."
"My background is in marketing and advertising, and one day I was sitting in church, and all of a sudden it dawned on me that the target audience of almost everything about church culture was a 50- to 55-year-old woman," said Murrow, a Presbyterian elder who's now a member of a nondenominational congregation in Anchorage.
The gender gap is not a distinctly American one but it is a Christian one, according to Murrow. The theology and practices of Judaism, Buddhism and Islam offer "uniquely masculine" experiences for men, he said.
Concern about the perceived femininization of Christianity-- and the subsequent backlash-- is nothing new.
"These guys have really come out because it's something they can do," Hale said. "They feel like they've made a contribution. . . . I think men like to do things that they feel comfortable doing."
Yet come Sunday morning, "we're going to sing love songs to Jesus and there's going to be fresh flowers on the altar and quilted banners on the walls," Murrow said.
Men aren't the only ones alienated by such an environment. According to Murrow, young people aren't that keen on it either. Both groups are challenge-oriented and appreciate risk, adventure, variety, pleasure and reward-- values some churches "ignore or vilify," according to Murrow.
Churches have to help men and women use their gifts, not just fit them into old religious molds, Murrow said.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Funny, if not so tragic. Their kids will grow up with weak bones and a low red blood count.
Amen! Once the sin is taken out of the sermon, all that's left is not-very-hot air.
(I sure hope you're not the "last Puritan.") 8~)
"Nah, they sing the 151st Psalm:"
You need a little context for that Psalm. It is a little known fact that it came out of the xperience of the woodcutters that King Hiram offered to cut the cedars in Tyre for King David's house. In one of the rare findings was a scroll, almost completely in tact that said:
"I didn't want to be a barber anyway. I wanted to be... a lumberjack!
Leaping from tree to tree as they float down the mighty rivers of British Columbia! The Fir! The Larch! The Redwood! The mighty Scots Pine!
The plucky little Aspen! The great limping rude tree of Nigeria!
The smell of fresh-cut timber! The crash of mighty trees!
With my best gal by my side, we'd sing, SING...
Oh, I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay!
I sleep all night and I work all day.
Guards : He's a lumberjack, and he's okay!
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
Lumberjack : I cut down trees, I eat my lunch,
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shoppin'
and have buttered scones for tea.
Guards : He cuts down trees, he eats his lunch,
he goes to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays he goes shoppin'and has buttered scones for tea.
All: He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day!
Lumberjack : I cut down trees, I skip and jump,
I like to press wild flowers.
I put on women's clothing
and hang around in bars!
Guards : He cuts down trees, he skips and jumps,
he likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing
and hangs around in bars?!
All: ...He's a lumberjack, and he's okay!
He sleeps all night and he works all day!
Lumberjack : I cut down trees, I wear high heels,
suspenders and a bra!
I wish I'd been a girlie,
just like my dear papa!
Guards : He cuts down trees, he wears... high heels?
Suspenders... and a bra?!
(Wants to be a girlie?!
...Poofter! Bloody poofter!
One Guard : Pinko commie fairy faggot...
"There is a definite pattern to all this -- schools, government, church, all being dominated by women. Why is that? I think it is because women are more easily led, more easily persuaded, more grateful just to be given the job. And so women are quicker to do the bidding of whomever is pulling the strings."
Why is that , you ask? I think Alex M. has the answer in post #8.
From an actual website:
What a guy hears: "Can't we just talk? We never spend any time together.:
Bleech
It is pictures like this in Gethsemane the drains away the manliness of Jesus. Mark says Jesus was so overcome with the enormity of the struggle He fell to the ground in agony. Luke says He sweat great drops of blood struggling in prayer and yet these artists portray Him in a benign, serene, effiminate light.
Females may be part of the power structure in ways they never were, but that has brought neither greater understanding, more peace or more prosperity. They never promised us more prosperity, but they did promise that women would be able to 'intuit' better, listen better, you know the rest of the sappy stuff the feminists tried to peddle.
I was a hippie girl, that's true, but it was for the good dope, not any of their philosophies. "If you can't be with the one you love, then love the one you're with" was my first clue that perhaps what the hippies were really about was free sex.
One of the best jobs I've held was at Xerox. I was secretary to the manager of the model shop. It was me, my boss and 40, prima-donna model makers. Testosterone heaven or hell, depending on your point of view.
One of the chief's who my manager reported to retired, and the person who took his place was a female with a degree in dance. She may have been qualified to manage a model shop, but it sure was hard to convince those model-makers, who would get in regular fights with engineers about what could and couldn't be tweaked on the copiers, of this.
Funny, if not so tragic. Their kids will grow up with weak bones and a low red blood count.
Not to mention, collagen challenged skin, thin nails, and dull, lifeless hair. :)
I'm glad this article was posted. This is a very real issue that needs to be confronted. I believe that man need to be challenged to be leaders. Thats what we are designed to do. Not selfish domineering leaders, but self sacrificing men of honor. I don't think you need to shy away from the softer side of the gospel as long as it's taught in conjunction with the leadership aspect. A man who understands his role as a leader doesn't shy away from a prayerful worship service.
It's not a malevolent conspiracy; it's the entrenchment of a familiar reading. "Comforter" was the translation the Reformation used too (Geneva, for one). It's accurate as far as it goes - but, as is often the case in translations, it isn't perfect. It's really difficult to convey nuances from one language to another.
Too much of the 19th century pietistic movement hymnology has that kind of sappy, sentimental baloney devoid of any real substance. I'll take choruses over them any time.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats...
Well, I'm late to the party (can't even blame the wife for this one). But there's no shortage of men in our congregation of about 3,000.
Shoot, some of us even wear funny clothes and makeup and sing and ~dance~ for two weeks before Christmas every year.
We have an active men's ministry group that builds ramps for the handicapped, sponsors a "bring your car to the church to get it serviced" Saturday for the single wimmin and does a food drive that feeds in the neighborhood of 8,000-10,000 people every Thanksgiving. Perhaps more importantly, while we do have one woman pastor, the other nine pastors are men, as are the majority of our leaders.
Not too bad for a bunch of pentecostals. ;-)
That said, prayers appreciated for ~my~ part in all of this. I'm working with one of our pastors who is also a cancer survivor. We're trying to build an outreach to men dealing with cancer either themselves or in their family.
I know you won't believe me, but I ~am~ an introvert in real life. Making phone calls is not my strong suit. And, the first guy I connected with is terminal.
Pray for grace and wisdom.
Thus Sha'ul (Paul) writes, "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered" (Rom. 8:26).
The point is that the comfort the Spirit offers is not primarily emotional, though of course if our honest need is emotional God will meet it, but more substantive--and that includes convicting us of sin when we need it, even if that hurts our feelings.
That's so beautiful! I don't think I've read that passage before today.
The point is that the comfort the Spirit offers is not primarily emotional, though of course if our honest need is emotional God will meet it, but more substantive--and that includes convicting us of sin when we need it, even if that hurts our feelings.
You're so right. Nice post.
That is very funny.
Or even, go dancing with me:
"Dance then, whereever you may be
For I am the Lord of the Dance," said He
"And I'll lead you all, whereever you may be
And I'll lead you all in the Dance," said He
Not every man wants to dance with Jesus. And if he is dancing, the man takes the lead.
The gender gap is not a distinctly American one but it is a Christian one, according to Murrow. The theology and practices of Judaism, Buddhism and Islam offer "uniquely masculine" experiences for men, he said.
This is true, but can be overstated. As noted by some on this thread, the Eastern Orthodox Churches do not really have this feminisation problem - this might be because they have a fixed and unchanging liturgy - can't be altered to the middle-aged lady's sensibility, as noted in the article.
I saw an interesting article about Reform Jewish congregations, who have recently restated the practice of male only prayers - they had to, because they were becoming an all-girl show. Orthodox Jews, it is true, never have that problem.
Also, a note on the reference to Buddhism. I read accounts by some Jesuit priests about taking an interest in Zen Buddhism, and even going through extensive and ardous training in order to become a "sensei" (or whatever it is). I noticed with this, that it seemed to confirm them in a masculine role - I wondered if that was not part of the attraction.
LOLOL. I liked the clothes and my lack of curls was finally in. 8~)
That's where we differ. I think it is a very precise and intentional malevolent conspiracy.
History does not just happen. Events do not simply trickle down in time. Day to day, week to week, year to year, life is manipulated by powerful self-interests.
Thankfully, beyond all that, God is in control and ordaining everything that occurs. Won't it be fascinating to find out why one day?
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