Is There Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus?

Holy Cross Center for Religion, Ethics and Culture ^ | 3/28/06 | William Lane Craig and Bart D. Ehrman

[dukeman]

A Debate between

William Lane Craig and Bart D. Ehrman

On March 28, 2006, Dr. Craig, Research Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology in La Mirada, California, and Dr. Ehrman, James A. Gray Distinguished Professor and Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, debated the status of the Christian claim to Jesus' resurrection from the perspective of historical data. The debate was sponsored by the Center for Religion, Ethics and Culture and the Campus Christian Fellowship.

[restornu]

If there is he/she/it can lead you to where you need to be

Who is he/she?

[hosepipe]

[ Who is he/she?(it) ]

Why would God have a gender?.. To reproduce?..

[restornu]

Well I was taken aback because the Bible has always talked about God as in Patriach

The Father is male, the Son is male and so is the Holy Spirit male!

It is possible there is a Heavenly Mother but not in the roll as part of the Godhead!

[Invincibly Ignorant]

The Universal Crap Game.. what number are you betting on?.. Snake Eyes is always present/possible.. and the dice might be loaded.. Scary thought eh!.. Gotta be careful whom you play with..

Not betting on anything. Surely not betting on the God/man paganism.

[N. Theknow]

A Pagan celebration was created on the day of the Sun.

The L-rd G-d, creator of the universe never changed the L-rd's Day from Shabbat.

The Pagans created a day of worship for honoring Jesus's resurrection? Interesting. Never knew that. Those Pagans certainly did a lot of things for the early church.

And, yes, the Lord God, Creator of the universe never changed His day from shabbat, the followers of Christ, mostly comprised of that "stiff-necked" people, changed their day of worship from the last to the first. Even though they faced persecution for worshipping the Risen Lord. Which is why they were bold to say the Lord's Prayer aloud.

[Uri’el-2012]

ON THE KEEPING OF EASTER.

From the Letter of the Emperor to all those not present at the Council.
(Found in Eusebius, Vita Const., Lib. iii., 18-20.)

When the question relative to the sacred festival of Easter arose, it was
universally thought that it would be convenient that all should keep the
feast on one day; for what could be more beautiful and more desirable,
than to see this festival, through which we receive the hope of
immortality, celebrated by all with one accord, and in the same
manner? It was declared to be particularly unworthy for this, the
holiest of all festivals, to follow the custom [the calculation] of the
Jews, who had soiled their hands with the most fearful of crimes, and
whose minds were blinded. In rejecting their custom,(1) we may
transmit to our descendants the legitimate mode of celebrating Easter,
which we have observed from the time of the Saviour's Passion to the
present day[according to the day of the week]. We ought not,
therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews, for the Saviour
has shown us another way; our worship follows a more legitimate and
more convenient course(the order of the days of the week); and
consequently, in unanimously adopting this mode, we desire, dearest
brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the
Jews, for it is truly shameful for us to hear them boast that without
their direction we could not keep this feast. How can they be in the
right, they who, after the death of the Saviour, have no longer been led
by reason but by wild violence, as their delusion may urge them? They
do not possess the truth in this Easter question; for, in their blindness
and repugnance to all improvements, they frequently celebrate two
passovers in the same year. We could not imitate those who are openly
in error. How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are most
certainly blinded by error? for to celebrate the passover twice in one
year is totally inadmissible. But even if this were not so, it would still
be your duty not to tarnish your soul by communications with such
wicked people[the Jews]. Besides, consider well, that in such an
important matter, and on a subject of such great solemnity, there ought
not to be any division. Our Saviour has left us only one festal day of
our redemption, that is to say, of his holy passion, and he desired[to
establish] only one Catholic Church. Think, then, how unseemly it is,
that on the same day some should be fasting whilst others are seated
at a banquet; and that after Easter, some should be rejoicing at feasts,
whilst others are still observing a strict fast. For this reason, a Divine
Providence wills that this custom should be rectified and regulated in a
uniform way; and everyone, I hope, will agree upon this point. As, on
the one hand, it is our duty not to have anything in common with the
murderers of our Lord; and as, on the other, the custom now followed
by the Churches of the West, of the South, and of
the North, and by some of those of the East, is the most acceptable, it
has appeared good to all; and I have been guarantee for your consent,
that you would accept it with joy, as it is followed at Rome, in Africa,
in all Italy, Egypt, Spain, Gaul, Britain, Libya, in all Achaia, and in the
dioceses of Asia, of Pontus, and Cilicia. You should consider not only
that the number of churches in these provinces make a majority, but
also that it is right to demand what our reason approves, and that we
should have nothing in common with the Jews. To sum up in few
words: By the unanimous judgment of all, it has been decided that the
most holy festival of Easter should be everywhere celebrated on one
and the same day, and it is not seemly that in so holy a thing there
should be any division. As this is the state of the case, accept joyfully
the divine favour, and this truly divine command; for all which takes
place in assemblies of the bishops ought to be regarded as proceeding
from the will of God. Make known to your brethren what has been
decreed, keep this most holy day according to the prescribed mode; we
can thus celebrate this holy Easter day at the same time, if it is granted
me, as I desire, to unite myself with you; we can rejoice together,
seeing that the divine power has made use of our instrumentality for
destroying the evil designs of the devil, and thus causing faith, peace,
and unity to flourish amongst us. May God graciously protect you, my
beloved brethren.

from DOCUMENTS FROM THE FIRST COUNCIL OF NICEA [THE FIRST ECUMENICAL COUNCIL] A.D. 325

This is the Decree from the first Pontiff of the Roman church to all the world.

Emperor Constantine, Emperor of the Roman Empire

He had issued an Edict making Sunday the day of rest

In 321 CE, while a Pagan sun-worshiper, the Emperor Constantine
declared that Sunday was to be a day of rest throughout the Roman Empire:

"On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest,
and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture
may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day
is not suitable for gain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment
for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost."

Council of Laodicea circa 364 CE ordered that religious observances were
to be conducted on Sunday, not Saturday. Sunday became the new Sabbath.

They ruled: "Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, but shall work on that day."

b'shem Y'shua

[Mrs. Don-o]

Yeah. Lack of physical relics. Considering how hot people were for premium relics back in medieval times, if there was still a bone,toth, cartilege, tendon, or hank 'o' hair of Jesus anywhere on this earth, somebody would have gotten it and it would be in a gold box in Venice.

Pretty solid proof, if you askme...

[N. Theknow]

4th Century.

Rather modern compared to the first followers of Jesus.

[Diego1618]

the followers of Christ, mostly comprised of that "stiff-necked" people, changed their day of worship from the last to the first. Even though they faced persecution for worshipping the Risen Lord.

Do you have scripture that would support your position on this? If so, what would be the reason for them changing the day?

[ears_to_hear]

Nevertheless, as betty boop has pointed out earlier - God is not stingy. He hears earnest pleas for "ears to hear"

The problem is the reprobate will never ask for ears to hear

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Here is MY testimony

Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

I was wandering lost and never knew it until He sought me and saved me with His grace.

[Uri’el-2012]

4th Century.

Rather modern compared to the first followers of Jesus.

168 posted on 06/11/2006 5:01:22 PM MDT by N. Theknow

Sunday worship not Shabbat.

That was the Decree from the first Pontiff of the Roman church to all the world.

The Council of Nicea was summoned, and presided over, by the Emperor Constantine.

Constantine, Pontifex Maximus of the Roman state religion.

He called all the bishops of the eastern and western churches to attend.

The Bishop of Rome was invited to attend but he chose not to attend.

One of the titles of the Roman Emperor was Pontifix Maximus,
a title given to the Roman Emperor by the king of Ephesus
who had inherited the title from Babylon

This title goes all the way back to Babylon and the beginnings of the mother-child
cult under Nimrod of Genesis 10 and his wife Sumerimus. Later,
Julius Caesar was elected Pontifex Maximus and when he became Emperor,
he became the supreme civil and religious ruler and head of Rome
politically and religiously with all the power and functions of the Babylonian pontiff.

Here was the magnificent temple of Esculapius, a pagan god
whose idol was in the form of a serpent.
The inhabitants were known as the chief temple keepers of Asia.
When the Babylonian cult of the Magians was driven out of Babylon,
they found a haven in Pergamum.

The title of the Magian high priest of Babylon was "Chief Bridge Builder"
meaning the one who spans the gap between mortals and Satan and his hosts.
In Latin this title was written "Pontifex Maximus,"

Revelation 2:12 "And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
The One who has the sharp two-edged sword says this:

Revelation 2:13 'I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is;
and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith
even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one,
who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

Revelation 2:14 'But I have a few things against you, because you
have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam,
who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block
before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed
to idols and to commit {acts of} immorality.

Revelation 2:15 'So you also have some who in the same way
hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans.

b'shem Y'shua

[hosepipe]

[ Not betting on anything. Surely not betting on the God/man paganism. ]

You might find (in the end) you were in the game sleepwalking..

[hosepipe]

[ The Father is male, the Son is male and so is the Holy Spirit male!.. It is possible there is a Heavenly Mother but not in the roll as part of the Godhead! ]

Biblically the languages are gender specific(the words) mostly.. So are people mostly.. Humans have a quale about gender among the other qualia.. I don't see why Spirits could or would NEED gender.. That includes Satan..

God needs no gender to make people/persons or even things.. The heavenly mother of course is a pagan diety.. Most all pagan religions have the Mother/Wife/Queen of "the Heavens".. It is common to pagan religions(Queen of heaven) but not included in scripture(the Bible).. There are other pagan things imported into "some forms" of christianity.. Gender might not be one of those.. Biblically... spiritual gender may be just be a human quale but not a pagan religious mirroring as in other elements..

The gender of God overlooks the WHY?.. Like Jesus existed before he had a body and exits after his body died.. Does Jesus NEED a body?.. I think not.. Evidently "WE" don't either(need a body), to exist(cremation).. OR GENDER...

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you, XeniaSt, for pinging ears_to_hear! Indeed, ears, that is my testimony as well.

[Alamo-Girl]

Indeed, gender is meaningless in the spiritual realm:

Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. - Matt 22:28-30

[restornu]

It is apparent that Jesus is addressing various sects some are followers of Moses, Pharisees, Sadducee, Publican. Scribes, Apollo, etc.

These folks would have no covenant with the Lord therefore no promise!

So when Jesus said such things as in-

1- Romans 3, speaking to the Jews an Gentiles who are followers of Moses, or in-

2- Matt 3, Jesus is telling the Sadducees what will happen to them beyond the Vail because they have no covenants with Jesus Christ,

Jesus is talking to the natural man who has not taken the covenant of the Lord!

Romans 3

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Matt. 22

****

23 ¶ The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,

24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

27 And last of all the woman died also.

28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

Now my scripture for me makes clear of these words that Jesus speaks so man is to be able to discern between those who are righteous in the eyes of the Lord and those who follow the teaching the doctrines the commandments of men.

****

I know many will dismiss or pay no mind to these scriptures but at least when I read the Bible my discernment has increased so I know the when the scriptures that are council for for the saints or Jesus is informing the various sects!

Doc & Cov

14 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed.

15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

Moses covenant
18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

[restornu]

Ping #176

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1644446/posts?page=176#176

[hosepipe]

Read it but have no idea of where you are going with this..
Are you making a statement?.. I'm not too smart..

[restornu]

Jesus teaches about marriage and divorce—Eternal life is for those who "Keep The Lord's Commandments!"

I think this is a good place to try to explain the different between Grace and Covenants!

Now the Pharisees would be covered under Grace, because their covenants are not with Jesus Christ but they are living under some form of the Law of Moses.

As you read in Matt 19 They were marriage in the House of the Lord and therefore if they Keep the Lord's Commandments they would have an Eternal Marriage!

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put ASUNDER.

Now had Moses had Joined them or some other sect that is not of The Church of Jesus Christ, therfore they would have no promise and when they died the marriage ends because it was until death do we part! They were living the Lesser Law!

As you continue to read Matt 22 you learn that the Sadducees do not believe in Resuurection of the Body so they could become angles of God!

In Matt 22
23 ¶ The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,

24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

27 And last of all the woman died also.

28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven

****

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

1- Because they lived the lesser Law they only could receive Grace.

2- They were under a misconception because they never really understood the Word of God!

3- Nor the power of God in being able to resurrect the Body that was of Flesh and Blood to an eternal Body of Flesh and Bones!

[dukeman]

There is no extra-biblical information "proving" that Jesus wasn't just like Koresh, or Jim Jones, or that Heaven's Gate guy.

When Christians start applying the same kind of reason power to the story of Jesus, then maybe I'd be more inclined to believe you have something.

Which of the five historical facts in post #61 do you doubt and why?