Posted on 06/06/2006 11:58:40 AM PDT by dukeman
A Debate between
William Lane Craig and Bart D. Ehrman
On March 28, 2006, Dr. Craig, Research Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology in La Mirada, California, and Dr. Ehrman, James A. Gray Distinguished Professor and Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, debated the status of the Christian claim to Jesus' resurrection from the perspective of historical data. The debate was sponsored by the Center for Religion, Ethics and Culture and the Campus Christian Fellowship.
Ok I am aware that Christians were persecuted in Rome especially under Nero. But our discussion started off with someone implying that his or her stong faith was helped by the fact the apostles all went to their deaths, save one, dying for Christ. I guess the words "disiples" and "apostles" were being used interchangedly which caused some confustion. For the purposes of our discussion I was most interested in the Apostles.
HOPE is a most promising beginning, stuartcr. It is one of the three cardinal Christian virtues, the other two being faith and love (caritas) of course. In your hope, send a silent prayer from your heart -- a prayer is a petition to God: for His help, for His grace, for His light. (The Lord hears us.) Then just leave the rest to Him.
Here's a little something I came across in my reading the other day, from William James, the great American philosopher and psychologist:
We and God have business with each other, and in opening ourselves to his infuence our deepest destiny is fulilled. The universe takes a turn genuinely for the worse or for the better in proportion as each one of us fulfills or evades God’s demands.May He ever bless you and all of yours through you.
I know little about you so I just were you ever Chirstian or another faith?
How can I take any historian seriously who claims that the winner of the 2000 Presidential election is not clear?
There are some who would claim the same reason (personal prejudices) restrains them from believing/taking serious the Historian Josephus. It's an excuse in their never-ending search for the 'exception clause' in the 'responsible for your indulgences' contract God has with we descendants of Adam, the same contract he has offered the Christ codicil for.
Academy historians claim that they can not consider a God absent evidence because miracles are improbable.
Academy scientists tell me that God is unneccesary to creation because given enough time and universes everything is probable.
I'm thinking the historians and scientists need to have an academic picnic.
I would not take too serious what or how Ehrman interpretes or spins the material and documents he has gather, but to have access your self to the documents or at least leads to get the original word for word, and than you can with you knowledge of scriputres and process it yourself!
I process everything myself amigo.
Well what I was trying to say is the value in his stuff is getting access or leads of the articles and document that have just now coming to surface.
I am tired of listening to gatekeepers, the good Lord gave us a brain too!:)
Wrong Only one believes as I do.. I'm a member of a cult of one member..
Exactly... its reasonable to have faith in something.. It takes a bit of faith to believe you will get from point A to point B and back again... Those that say they have no faith are deluded.. Cause they do have some.. Even if that faith is in themselves... or elves or fairys.. or some other primate thats conned them into believing they are "smart"(<<-that other primate)..
Actually according to Jesus words handed down to us, he came to make ALL religion obsolete, AND DID...
You're welcome. What I mean by my earlier post is that most scholars of antiquity agree that the Testimonium was tampered with, but even the original version has value in supporting the fact that a man named Jesus lived in 1st century Palestine and he was crucified for his miraculous claims. There are other, reliable extra-Biblical sources for these points, but they do not comprise the entire case for the historical event of Jesus' resurrection. They support point #1 of the five point proof I mentioned earlier in this thread:
1. Jesus' death by crucifixion.
2. The disciples sincerely believed the risen Jesus appeared to them.
3. Conversion of the skeptic James, brother of Jesus.
4. Conversion of the church persecutor Paul.
5. The tomb was empty.
The most plausible explanation for these facts is that Jesus is who He said He was. Alternative theories do not adequately explain these facts.
HA! That "other primate" indeed! By which you mean: the Father of Lies....
Certainly Satan is a "creature," not a "god." Same as us in that regard, but with qualification.... There is a reason God tolerates him (which is evident from the Book of Job): He is ultimately a part of the divine plan for man and the universe. Though I'm reasonably certain that Satan hates the very idea of service to God, unlike us humans he has no choice in the matter, having made his fatal choice even before the Beginning, which in justice drew consequences: It was a choice that determined his entire future. Which probably explains all the savagery and hatred he spews into our world. Go figure!
Now there's a wild speculation on my part. What do you think, hosepipe?
Indeed, it would be unreasonable for a person to say they have no faith in anything. Thank you for your engaging post!
Not as easy as this. I believe God exists but Jesus isn't what others claimed him to be.
I have, and alway have had, hope, faith, and love...it's just different from yours, and, I believe, it too came from God.
Well, I,ve heard enough, thanks for the attempt.
WHoa!.. Satan?.. I was thinking human..
My thoughts?... Hmmm.. You went a whole nother angle than mine/me.. I was referring to "primate" being a word("Evo word") man uses to make humans merely an animal(and all that implies).. No doubt Satan has no need of a body because the universal "war" is spiritual anyway not carnal..
Indeed, Satan is a creature, a spiritual creature(angel).. but so are we.. Humans have and are spirits too.. linked for a time with a human body(for testing purposes)[as per Jesus many metaphors on the subject].. A test of the human spirit not the body.. i.e. spirit riding a donkey.. (my metaphore)
This kinda interfaces with some christians that seem to worship Jesus "Body" and others that worship his "Spirit".. Eventhough Jesus talked of "his body" being a spiritual co-op(of spirits).. metaphorically, seemingly to wean one away from worshipping his "body"(physical body).. to connecting to his "Spirit"..
You always make me think!.. ;^)...
Actually most things Jesus said or implied seem (to me) to draw one away to the "Spirit".. i.e. away from carnality.. Carnality being the physical body.. and the things pertaining to the physical body.. to the Spirit and things pertaining to the Spirit/spirit.. Not that the physical is sinful.. its just a "body".. Sin seems to be a spiritual thing and not physical at all.. The spirit riding the body is the "sinner" not the body.. Satan is a spirit and so are we.. Satan tempts the spirit not the body.. Tempts to What?.. Tempts the spirit to operate as if it were an animal or carnal not a spirit.. Its a Big deal on this planet whether you operate as an animal or a spirit.. What do animals have to be ashamed of?.. Nothing.. Animals just do what the their bodys need or crave..
See what you've done.. You've exposed me as the Moonbat I am.. Little wonder I am a member of a cult with one member.. LoL.. d;-)~',',
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.