Posted on 05/30/2006 3:59:13 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan
When it comes to salaries among some church leaders, the policy seems to be "don't ask, don't tell," even though tithes from parishioners pay those salaries.
While Catholic and Greek Orthodox churches have no qualms about revealing pastors' salaries, many local Protestant churches do not reveal salaries to nonmembers.
Salaries of pastors at Protestant churches tend to be set by overarching religious associations or by a church board or both. The figure is often based on the church's location and parish size. Salaries tend to fall within the lower to upper middle-class range.
A general rule among Protestant churches may be that the larger the church, the higher the clergy salary, though that's not fool proof since a financial board or council typically still must approve the salary.
Some large Protestant churches, such as Canyon Hills Assembly of God, where 3,000 people regularly attend, do not reveal pastors' salaries even on their financial statements, where the salary is lumped in with all staffer salaries, said the Rev. Steve Vinson of Canyon Hills.
Others, such as Laurelglen Bible Church, reveal salaries only to members.
The Rev. Roger Poppen said ministers' salaries at Laurelglen Bible aren't revealed for the same reason he doesn't ask members what they earn annually -- it is bad form. Poppen, however, did offer more than most Protestant preachers, saying that 50 percent of the church's $2.2 million annual church budget goes toward paying the salaries of about 22 staffers.
Ray Hammond, pastor of Grace Bible Church, said revealing clergy salaries is a no-win situation.
"I make more than some and significantly less than others," said Hammond, whose nondenominational church has 135 members. "Usually the people who have a problem with what a pastor makes are those who make $1 less than the pastor."
Then there are those like the Rev. Charles Twist, ordained a Foursquare minister and the leader of the Restoration Word Fellowship Church. Twist said he takes no salary because his parish is small, 35 people, most of whom are poor.
The books at St. George Greek Orthodox Church show that the Rev. Joseph Chaffee earns $1,455.59 biweekly, which yearly computes to $37,845.34. Chaffee, who's been at St. George eight years, also receives a housing allowance and gas-mileage reimbursement.
His salary was determined by the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of New York and St. George's church council. Chaffee supports a wife and nine children, ages 1 to 20, with his income.
"The goal is to cover my needs," Chaffee said of his salary, "not to reward me for my labor."
The Diocese of Fresno sets the salaries for Bakersfield Catholic priests. The annual base amount is less than $20,000, said Jesse Avila, diocese chancellor. Salaries are not based on parish size.
The Rev. Craig Harrison of St. Francis of Assisi Church makes $16,200 annually. Rectory housing, health and life insurance, and retirement benefits bring his yearly total to $25,590, he said.
Harrison, who has been a Catholic priest for 16 years, receives gas-mileage reimbursement for hospital visits and other job-related activities.
He said the modest salary reminds him why he joined the Catholic church and of his obligation to help the needy.
"We are not distracted," he said of Catholic priests.
The topic is that churches are not taxable by our own founding documents and our own law.
In NOT paying, they ARE rendering unto Caesar. It's the law.
Oh come now....you've never seen pictures of the Pope bandied about like Stalin & Lenin and other titular heads?
The opulence of the hierarchy's treatment is one of my objections to Roman Catholicism and the various Orthodox churches.
That law should be changed. When I give money for fuel I don't like 80cents per gallon rendered unto Ceasar either.
The constitution does not provide that you cannot be taxed for your gas consumption. In fact, many who read it say it favors sales taxes.
On the other hand, it does say that Congress can't prohibit my free exercise of religion.
If they tax my $10 gift by $1, then they've passed a law that says I cannot worship God with 100% of my money, but with only 90% of my money.
You are free, however, to change the Constitution. There is an amendment process.
On the other hand, is it your opinion that huge corporations have greater access to our government's centers of power partly because of their huge monetary contributions due to taxation; that the government is intimately concerned with their viability because of the jobs they provide, the revenue they generate?
Why would it not be the same with large denominations? The government, once it began receiving that money, would have a vested financial & jobs interest in the CONTINUATION and SUCCESS of those denominations. They would be inclined to ASSIST THEM in their endeavors.
This, too, would be unconstitutional, but it would be natural.
So, if the Pope felt like going to a good restaurant with you, he'd have to bum a few bucks?
We are simply discussing how available cash is labeled.
The Pope has ENORMOUS sums of available cash.
I have seen the gold room at Cologne Cathedral.
The constitution does not provide that you cannot be taxed for your gas consumption. In fact, many who read it say it favors sales taxes.
On the other hand, it does say that Congress can't prohibit my free exercise of religion.
If they tax my $10 gift by $1, then they've passed a law that says I cannot worship God with 100% of my money, but with only 90% of my money.
You are free, however, to change the Constitution. There is an amendment process.
On the other hand, is it your opinion that huge corporations have greater access to our government's centers of power partly because of their huge monetary contributions due to taxation; that the government is intimately concerned with their viability because of the jobs they provide, the revenue they generate?
Why would it not be the same with large denominations? The government, once it began receiving that money, would have a vested financial & jobs interest in the CONTINUATION and SUCCESS of those denominations. They would be inclined to ASSIST THEM in their endeavors.
This, too, would be unconstitutional, but it would be natural.
I would be in favor of changin the law. Your money is invested and you receive a return. Storing up treasures in heaven? keeping the facility afloat that you may receive spiritual benefit by attending? Its all the same.
The exemption of churches from taxation is the right answer, imo, if we seek to allow unhindered worship by believers, and if we seek to avoid powerful, financially based church lobbyists within our own government.
We disagree. Besides, we're talking about preachers that live high on the hog, not preachers who do a little better than the average guy.
They're anathema to the teachings of Jesus, and therefore lousy examples.
Good post....
"I've never seen a Catholic or Orthodox priest break down in tears to beg for money on their "talk show." "
Which is better, to beg for money or to sell forgivness?
Really?
Can you provide some examples of these "teachings"?
Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's. - Luke 20:25
I would think that the same scripture that says we are to pay taxes clearly shows that which belongs to God (the church) does not belong to the state, so is not taxable. The verse divides the two jurisdictions and shows who is to be in control of each.
Describe the average guy. And would you begrudge any pastor who lived above that lifestyle? And what if he had an average salary, but made a fortune through outside investments or inheritance or book sales?
I think once we go down this road we are asking for trouble. If your pastor makes more than you, is that going to make you think less of him. A pastor should be judged according to his work, according to his faithfulness to the calling for which he has been called and not based upon his compensation package.
David and Solomon were two of the richest men who ever lived, yet they composed a large portion of our scriptures and Jesus is pleased to take his seat upon the throne of David, your namesake. Think about that.
Financial scandals are not limited to charismatic and Pentecostal clergy by any means, though the MSM and some Catholic apologists are unduly fixated upon it. Perhaps they would do well to remember Jesus' own words to the effect that before you criticize the speck in one man's eye, deal with the two by four in your own eye.
Everyone in my congregation knows everything about every dime that is spent on anything. In fact, you don't need to be a member, you can walk in off the street and look at it if you wish.
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