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To: truthfinder9; xzins; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Buggman; 1000 silverlings; betty boop
Thanks for the book suggestion and for your reply! And thanks to all of you for your wonderful posts, insights, humor and pings!

You just restated what I said in a different way. The llth dimension, or 2nd time dimension, can be used for another being (outside of all time lines) to interact with mankind.

M-theory (eleven dimensions) does not have a second temporal dimension. F-theory does and is twelve dimensions: Evidence for F theory

Again, God is not “in” any geometric dimensionality – neither spatial nor temporal. He is timeless, spaceless. That is the entire point of “in the beginning”. For more on beginnings: Time before Time

And for a higher dimensionality approach with two temporal dimensions: five dimensional relativity, two times

And for Freeper comments related to subject of geometry vis-à-vis matter: Mysteries of Mass

That's not exactly what I meant. God didn't make our time his time in Gen 1:2, he entered our time to interact with our world. That doesn't mean he was bound by our time, but it did signify a shift in the point of view that the author was writing from.

To the contrary, I perceive God as the author of Scripture.

It is illogical (and unnecessary) that the Father would “enter” His creation before He created it. The Son, however, was in the beginning (John 1) – everything (both the spiritual and physical creation) was made by Him and for Him.

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven. – Col 1:12-20

I’m glad to see that you are promoting the view I hold – that the Father’s revelation in Jesus Christ, in the Holy Spirit, in Scripture and in Creation agree.

But perhaps our approach is different?

Whenever there seems to be a conflict between Scripture and Creation, my presumption is that the failing is my own and not the indwelling Spirit, Scripture or Creation. (Romans 1:20-21, Psalms 19)

So I pray for understanding. The Holy Spirit is the only leader I trust (Romans 8, I Cor 2, John 15-17). I eschew all the doctrines and traditions of men whether Calvin, Arminius, the Pope, Billy Graham, Joseph Smith, etc. And He never fails me. As my eyes pass over the words, He brings the Scriptures alive within.

And concerning Creation, I also pray to know everything that He wants me to know but no more - then I research the science, math and so forth.

IMHO, it always comes down to our worldview on two points: (1) how we know what we know and how sure we are that we know it, and (2) our concept of “all that there is”.

On the first, I value above - and am more certain of - Spiritual knowledge than all other types of knowledge – whether sensory perception, logic or whatever. Freeper Investigation on the subject.

Thus there is never a conflict – the Spirit brings the Word alive through His indwelling. I accept His confirmation of them, including all the miracles, without hesitation or reservation.

On the second, I am a philosophical Realist (as compared to a Nominalist). To a realist, a tree falling in the forest makes a sound even if no one is around to hear it; universals such as threeness, redness, etc. exist.

For me, that which can be observed by microscope to telescope, matter in all its motions, etc. is but a subset of “all that there is”. Geometry exists and the mathematician comes along and discovers it

Likewise there are numerous non-spatial, non-temporal, non-corporeal existents – such as spirit, geometry, consciousness, qualia (likes, dislikes, pain, pleasure, etc.) – which are manifest “in” space/time geometry (regardless of dimensions) even when they also exist “beyond” all space/time geometry (in timelessness, spacelessness).

IOW, I am consciouslessly aware that I exist in timelessness even while yet in the flesh:

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. - Colossians 3:3

Therefore I am already assured that when my spirit weighs anchor from this body, I am already home in the Lord.

In sum, “all that there is” includes not only the spiritual and physical Creation but more importantly, God.

As for the theories such as Schroeder's, there is one fatal flaw. He forgets that regardless of what occured after the big bang instant, everything in the universe experienced the same time. It could very well by different relative to something outside the universe, but that is meaningless. More simply, everything in the universe was on the same "ride" so regardless of accleration changes, etc., a hypothetical person on the ride woudln't notice any time changes. This is just like an astronaut in orbit, who's clock actually slows down a miniscule fraction of a second, but he would never know unless he compares it to a precise clock on Earth.

Again, you are accepting only a three spatial dimension universe evolving over time (time as a line). Relativity (and time as a plane) - does not apply to that worldview – it is based on a space/time continuum.
189 posted on 06/01/2006 10:42:35 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
I forgot to mention my definition for "reality":

Reality is God's will and unknowable in its fullness.


191 posted on 06/01/2006 11:09:45 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
"M-theory (eleven dimensions) does not have a second temporal dimension. F-theory does and is twelve dimensions: Evidence for F theory"

You're right, I miswrote.

"It is illogical (and unnecessary) that the Father would “enter” His creation before He created it."

The universe was alrady created in Genesis 1:1. In Genesis 1:2 we see God "hovering" over the waters, hence "entering" the creation.

"Whenever there seems to be a conflict between Scripture and Creation, my presumption is that the failing is my own and not the indwelling Spirit, Scripture or Creation."

Our opproach is the same. The problem is that many creationists assume they're right a priori and discard any contrary evidences or contrive scripture to support their views.

"Again, you are accepting only a three spatial dimension universe evolving over time (time as a line). Relativity (and time as a plane) - does not apply to that worldview – it is based on a space/time continuum."

Not sure what you are getting at. General and Special relativity do operate in our universe. After the creation event, all of the dimensions that formed the universe existed (and still do) together. The universe has to be at a minimum of 10 dimensions, the 6 or more beyond our four remain "curled" up everywhere. Time in the universe as a whole, negelecting minor localized phenomenon, traveled at the same rate since the big bang.

Now Schroeder's main idea is that God's time frame is not the same as ours and God can move at relativistic velocities. Billions of years for people could be 7 days for God. The main problem with that, beyond some physics problems, is how it makes God sound like he is bound by time and needs to "move" place to place. God is neither bound by time or required to move around for he is outside all of the dimensions of this universe. Technically, God doesn't have a time frame. Schoreder is trying so hard to combine 7days/13.7billions years I think he is redefining who God is.

203 posted on 06/02/2006 6:32:10 AM PDT by truthfinder9
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