Posted on 05/01/2006 7:14:29 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
You are misinformed. Big time.
Baptism is immersion for the forgiveness of sin. (Acts 2:38; Mark 16:16; I Pet 3:21) The only thing that matters is the purpose of their baptism in the mind of the "baptizee."
Aren't you thinking of Nazarenes?
You are badly misinformed. A cappella singing is some of the most beautiful in the world. The very word itself means "as in church"; check any good dictionary.
Here is a link for you on how the various founders of denominational church felt about instrumental music in the worship service: href=http://www.bibleweb.com/library/jh-im3.html As far as wearing make-up by women is concerned, there is no such prohibition in the chruches of Christ.
***John's baptism was inadequate: Acts 19:1-5.***
Not if the "they" refers to those who heard John speak and not to those who heard Paul speak. After all, John got his authority from GOD himself and had the HOLY Spirit.
Besides, can you show me anywhere in the GOSPELS where Christ re-baptized any of those who had John's Baptism? Remember, John's Baptism was for REMISSION OF SIN, precisely what you say Mark 16:16 is about.
***The real rough part is dealing with the 'no makeup on women' policy.***
***Who has that policy?***
Nahh. that's them pentecostals and cooneyites over there.
And ONE means one, not hundreds. The one body is His church and it is defined as the one who keeps His commandments.
**Baptism is immersion for the forgiveness of sin. (Acts 2:38; Mark 16:16; I Pet 3:21) The only thing that matters is the purpose of their baptism in the mind of the "baptizee."***
Then why does one need a baptizer at all? Just jump in the swimming hole and say "I baptize myself in the name of Jesus for remission of sin!" Several (in)famous church founders have done it!
I wish he were - it's a congregational practice that I'm familiar with in a couple of CoCs as well. Perhaps "policy" is too strong a word, though. Maybe that's what you're reacting to?
I was wondering when someone else was going to reach that same conclusion :D
Contest, context, context.
John himself distinguished between his baptish and New Testament Bapism (See Matt 3:11). John's Baptism was "unto remission of sin," wheras Christian baptism is "for remission of sin" (Acts 2:38). Jesus, in his lifetime, baptized "unto remission of sin", just as John Did.
New Testament baptism only became possible after the death of Jesus on the cross (Rom 6:3-4). That is why Paul rebaptized those who had only received the baptism of John.
Works for me. Any other option makes my salvation dependent on the cooperation of other human beings, which is a concept I'd reject. And as I said, someone had to go first.
The chruch of Christ has an overarching theology. It is called the Bible. I'm sure you're aware that many CoC congregations have a different take on this matter.
I have attended, visited, corresponded with, and spoken at many churches of Christ over the past 50 years and have never run across one that has a different take on the matter. Nor have I ever read of one in any church of Christ literature.
To publicly and outwardly proclaim your 1. Repentance towards God 2. Identification with Jesus Christ in his death, burial and resurrections and to publicly own him as your Lord and Master.
Water baptism is an outward symbol of an inner spiritual transformation. The water itself does nothing.
Well PetroniusMaximus, I must humbly disagree, and would offer this scriptural basis. Yes, most main stream churches of Christ do teach and believe that baptism is essential for salvation. But you know what, we didn’t make that up. It comes directly from the Bible. Please allow me to share with you some of those scriptures. I apologize in advance for the length of this post. But please, bear with me.
These are just a few of the scriptures in the Bible that speak of baptism being the vehicle through which God extends his grace. First let’s look at what Jesus himself said. Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. That was the words of our Lord. He, who believes AND is baptized, will be saved.
On the Day of Pentecost, some few weeks after the death and resurrection of Jesus, the Apostle Peter, speaking to a huge crowd in Jerusalem preached to them Jesus, and the following is stated in Acts 2: 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The Apostle Paul, in recounting his own conversion stated the following in Acts 22:13-16: and he stood and said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And at that same hour I looked up at him. 14 Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth. 15 For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
So you see, Jesus, the Apostle Peter, and Paul each speak of baptism as being essential for the remission of sins. (Salvation). In each instance, the statement is made to “be baptized and wash away your sins. Baptism is the vehicle through which God extends his grace to us. Peter further expounded on that thought in I Peter 3 wherein he stated: 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
Peter says, “there is an antitype which NOW saves us---baptism, not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God”. If you will, “Baptism NOW saves us”. Again it is the vehicle through which Grace is extended to us.
Another example of the type, to which baptism is the anti-type is that of Naaman the Leper in II Kings 5. Naaman was the servant of the King of Aram and he suffered badly from Leprosy. He had sought cures from many places to no avail then finally ee went to the Prophet Elisha and the following occurred, II Kings 5:9 So Naaman went with his horses and chariots and stopped at the door of Elisha's house. 10 Elisha sent a messenger to say to him, "Go, wash yourself seven times in the Jordan, and your flesh will be restored and you will be cleansed." 11 But Naaman went away angry and said, "I thought that he would surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the LORD his God, wave his hand over the spot and cure me of my leprosy. 12 Are not Abana and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than any of the waters of Israel? Couldn't I wash in them and be cleansed?" So he turned and went off in a rage. 13 Naaman's servants went to him and said, "My father, if the prophet had told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much more, then, when he tells you, 'Wash and be cleansed'!" 14 So he went down and dipped himself in the Jordan seven times, as the man of God had told him, and his flesh was restored and became clean like that of a young boy.
Now where did Naaman’s actual cleansing come from? Was it the actual dipping in the Jordon River 7 times? No. What if he had only dipped 1 time, or 2 or even 6? Would he have been cleansed? No. Why not? Because he was commanded to dip 7 times. Now what was in the water that cured leprosy? Nothing. Do you suppose that if other lepers had come to the Jordon after hearing the story that they would have been cleansed? No. Why was Naaman? Because he had faith. He wasn’t cured by the water, he was cured by his faith. He was cured because of his obedience. He was commanded to dip in the river 7 times, he did, and he was cleansed. Just like Noah and his family through their obedience were saved from a wicked world by water that cleansed the world. Naaman was cleansed by his obedient faith in the word of God’s prophet.
The Apostle Paul expounds on baptism in several places. They are:
Romans 6: 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Galatians 3: 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Colossians 2: 11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins[c] of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
What the Apostle Paul is saying here is that the way we access the cleansing blood of Christ is by dying as he did. By then being buried with him, and then rising up just as he did to a new life. A new life in him. But Paul wasn’t talking about a physical death; instead he was talking about a figurative death, burial and resurrection. We die to sin by being buried in the waters of baptism. Therein, we share in his death. Just as he died on the cross, and carried with him the sins of us all, we join him in that death. And just as he, after 3 days was raised from the dead, with a new, uncorrupted body, we too, will raise out of the watery grave of baptism, in a new body, free from the corruption of sin. And together with Christ, we will walk a new life saved from our sins. Paul further said, as referenced above, all who are baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Stated another way…to put on Christ, we must be baptized into Christ.
How else can we rid ourselves of sin and receive the salvation offered by Christ, but to die with him? And once a body dies, it must be buried. After that burial, just as God raised Jesus up from the dead, we too will rise out of the baptismal grave and have that new spotless body. Free from our sins. And we then live a life of faith and obedience until Jesus comes to claim his own.
Further, of the 8 or so examples in the New Testament, (after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ Jesus,) where the scriptures reference someone being saved...each and every one also references that the person was baptized. If it wasn't essential, why would God go out of his way to so specify.
Acts 8:11-1311 And they heeded him because he had astonished them with his sorceries for a long time. 12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. 13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.
Acts 8:35-38 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.
Acts 10:44-48 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 16:14-15 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. 15 And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” So she persuaded us.
Acts 16:32-34 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.
Acts 18:7-9 And he departed from there and entered the house of a certain man named Justus,[a]one who worshiped God, whose house was next door to the synagogue. 8 Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized. 9 Now the Lord spoke to Paul in the night by a vision, “Do not be afraid, but speak, and do not keep silent;
Acts 19:4-6 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
Acts 22:15-16 For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’
It is my hope that this will in some way show to those who wonder, why the churches of Christ believe and teach that baptism is the vehicle through which we receive the Grace of God. This isn’t something that we made up. It is from God. That is our belief. That is my belief. Some may believe otherwise. I know that they do. My statement to those who believe otherwise is: If I am wrong…then the worst that has happened is that I got wet. But let me ask the you this question…If I am right, and you are wrong…what is the worst that will happen to you? Please read these verses and pray and study on them. And ask yourself…How do I put on Christ? What must I do?
May God Bless each and every one of you.
****John's Baptism was "unto remission of sin," wheras Christian baptism is "for remission of sin" (Acts 2:38). Jesus, in his lifetime, baptized "unto remission of sin", just as John Did. *****
You don't say! Context! Context!
Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance FOR the remission of sins.
Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance FOR the remission of sins;
Do you recommend this thread because you are a Gnostic?
LOL - love that commercial
In the absent of another person what you intended as a farce would be entirely scriptural.
Better read I Pet 3:21 (Baptism now saves us)
****That was the words of our Lord. He, who believes AND is baptized, will be saved.***
It is at times like this I like to bring up this argument.
Was Cornelius saved when he received the Holy Spirit or when he was baptized. Where has an unsaved person ever received the Holy Spirit. The context shows Cornelius was saved BEFORE he was baptized.
And Paul...Was Paul saved when he was baptized or when GOD chose him to be a chosen vessel to take the word of God to the Gentiles.
And Paul was not given the commission to baptize others although he did.
For Christ sent me NOT to baptize but to preach the word...
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