Pleasant thoughts!
Posted on 04/27/2006 3:03:34 PM PDT by restornu
>>no wonder your founder threw out the baby with the bathwater...
>>he didn't want that diversity...
You really area master at the offensive phrase, you almost accedentally had a civil post, nice save!
No, I don’t think Fast food is a good analogy for religion,
A) It’s bad for you
B) Eating at Wendy’s is like eating at McDonalds, you get food.
C) If you miss this one there is another two blocks down on the left.
JM $.02
I will not be held accountable for what God says that offends you.
... or, presumably, ... by what Joseph Smith said that God said.
Because, the truth is ... there is absolutely no other witness ... to confirm that what Joseph Smith said ... was true.
Even Jesus didn't expect His hearers to believe what He said ... without additional witness.John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
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This is a very good question. Listen, if someone says to me, "C, you're hell-bound." I'm not offended [at least not the first time it's uttered!]. If someone says to me, "C, the creed the Holy Spirit inspired and then protected these generations is abominable," ya better believe that not only provokes me, but it provokes the very Spirit who inspired and sustained them.
Slander me all you want. Jesus even said to blaspheme Him, and it could be forgiven. Now blaspheming the Holy Spirit has prompted multiple theological discussions that I'm not meaning to lead into a tangent here, but even the remote possibility that somebody could be militating versus the Holy Spirit's very breath (the literal meaning of inspiration) is tredding on very dangerous grounds.
Either the Holy Spirit can protect what He has inspired, or He can't. And to say that He can't or that He failed for almost two centuries is a form of slander against Him which should prompt repentance on the part of anyone who has engaged in such a broadside against Him!
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the only true church on the face of the earth.
Just like most other religions, we claim to have the truth, and every body else is wrong. Unlike most religions we believe that those who truly believe, but are mistaken in their belief will have the opportunity to join later, and even those who have lived good lives without joining will not end up in “Hell” just because they “Guessed wrong” (that’s why the South park episode is so funny, everyone went to hell just because they were not Mormon, even though that’s not what Mormon’s believe, so if we were the right church … Irony, it so… Ironic)
So, again with the Question from #468
Why is it that those who leave the church can’t leave it alone?
You may disagree with what I am saying, but it is VERY biblical, which puts me back into the Why the special venom for Mormons?
I don't see any particular venom.
Christians get asked questions about their faith.
Real christians take the time to learn to answer them.1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Children, welcome to the Hotel Utah-fornia.
You can check out any time you like…but you can never leave.
Well, first of all, how many of these "other religions" are going door to door saying all of our creeds are abominable and our professors corrupt?
Who would provoke you more? Somebody who occasionally writes a letter to the editor defaming you, or somebody who mounts a multi-media campaign (Web, TV, print ads) and then sends massive # of folks world-wide to defame your reputation?
We're not just talking about a lot of religions saying the same thing against the Christian church. We're also talking about the zealousness and intensity in which somebody is spreading that message.
And you can't get around what the bottom-line message is. To have a restoration message carries zero weight until you convince folks that the original is a crumbled mass awaiting destruction.
If the original is still the real deal in relatively good shape, then nobody's going to buy into your restoration message. They go in hand in hand. Every pro-restoration message is a claim that Satan prevailed against the Church.
So, tell me, just how many other religions go around and proclaim in the mass media & door to door that Satan completely prevailed against the Church?
>>God doesn't reveal Himself simply to confirm the 4-point conclusions of a 15-year-old
>>teen-especially when it contradicts what His own Son promised ("the gates of hell will
>>not prevail against the church."...LDS believe the prevail doctrine, and make liars out
>>of Jesus). God has His own agenda beyond the religious wonderings of a 15 yo teen.
So, is it Joseph’s age that bothers you , or that he might have had direction before his first in person meeting?
We are also told that that day will not come save there be falling away first, and that the church would have to be restored.
The gates of hell will never prevail against Christ’s church. That has almost nothing to do with this world.
2 Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Ya done good, Welcome to the Forum.
Ya picked a long one to cut your teeth on :-)
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.
So God the Father is the ultimate witness of Christ. The Holy Ghost bears witness of the divinity of Christ.
God the Father is no witness to Joseph Smith's testimony.
There have been no mighty works like those following the ministries of Jesus, Moses, Noah, Isaiah, Elijah, Elisha, John, Peter, Paul, etc.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Moses didn't write about Joseph Smith ... nobody did.
Mormons claim Joseph Smith is a prophet of Christ.
There are human witnesses for and against whether he was a Prophet or not. The test of whether he was a prophet would be if God really did call him to be one and then witnessed that he was a chosen prophet like Moses was.
I believe God did call Joseph Smith as a Prophet.
And my point is that Joseph Smith needs to held to the same standard as any Biblical prophet. There were many false prophets in Biblical days too.
The definitve test given in the scriptures is that the prophecies of any so-called prophet must come to pass.
God, Himself, said that if anyone claims to be a prophet, ... and those things that he says don't come to pass, ... do not listen to him ... for he is a false prophet.
You and Colofornian could swhith logins and only your wives (forgive the supposition) would know the diffrence.
I could swear I hit reply and cut and copied it up from the little preview window, Oh well, I'll take your word for it.
Sorry about confusing you two again.
I was offended once by a certain LDS Institute Director, but I could also speak well of another LDS Institute Director. So, no, alas, no LDS person or persons is/are to "blame" for my salvation.
Why can't I leave LDS alone? I'd like to say that I'd make a bargain--you call all the LDS missionaries home, and then I'd consider staying home. But that would not be true.
Lost sheep are not simply the prodigals who roam away. Lost sheep include the "faithful" brother who stayed home and was slighted that his repenting brother received the full attention of the Father.
Paul's custom when he entered a new city was to visit the religious folks first (the synagogues). And make no mistake. It was not an academic enterprise: "I speak the truth in Christ--I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit--I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, the people of Israel." (Rom 9:1-4).
LOL My wife would be very surprised! I'm a woman!
I agree that the huge Missionary program and Public Relations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints forces many to make a decision for or against the Church.
I think Mormons and Evangelicals are competitive. It’s not a bad thing. Think of it as two world class runners trying to outdo each other. Good Christians like to proselytize and so do Mormons.
I agree that the huge Missionary program and Public Relations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints forces many to make a decision for or against the Church.
I think Mormons and Evangelicals are competitive. It’s not a bad thing. Think of it as two world class runners trying to outdo each other. Evangelicals like to proselytize and so do Mormons.
On my mission I had a missionary companion who liked to debate the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I never fully understood it at first. Then realized he was a Zealous guy and liked to Debate the competition. Jehovah’s Witnesses went door to door like us. So they were the competition.
I find your defense of your Christian beliefs invigorating.
Why can't I leave the Church alone? I'm not so good as Colofornian. There's a part of me that rebels and keeps on rebelling.
http://scriptures.lds.org/moses/5
Moses Chapter 5...
29 And Satan said unto Cain: Swear unto me by thy throat, and if thou
tell it thou shalt die; and swear thy brethren by their heads, and by
the living God, that they tell it not; for if they tell it, they shall
surely die; and this that thy father may not know it; and this day I
will deliver thy brother Abel into thine hands.
30 And Satan sware unto Cain that he would do according to his
acommands•. And all these things were done in secret."
I took a blood oath in the Temple. I'm just daring you all to come and slash my throat. I told all your dirty little secrets and I'm still alive.
Glory Hallalujah
oops, sorry about the repeat
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