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Locked on 04/28/2006 7:28:28 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Toxic thread turned personal |
Posted on 04/25/2006 6:19:21 PM PDT by Full Court
just out of curiosity - does your KJV have the apocrypha in it ?
I much agree that it is a vile screed against a Godly man.
But then I typically try to take stands on the opposite side of the stands of evident pharisees.
I do know of 2-3 things re Billy Graham.
1. A missionary friend knew him. Insisted he was an authentic, humble, extremely moral and extremely Biblical servant of The Lord Jesus Christ.
2. I know that when he came to our area and according to my A of G pastor--the BG Association typically worked PRIMARILY with churches which had a track record of good follow-up and BIBLICAL discipleship. This typically meant more often Assembly of God churches instead of Baptist churches. That was a surprise to me. Of course, this was not widely shared info.
3. I have heard Billy's sermons enough to recall more than a few assertions about the crucialness of The Blood of Jesus. That broad side is simply wrong.
4. Billy may have said some things in some situations I'd have said differently. Who hasn't. But I wasn't him and I wasn't in those situations and I'm not his master; not his supervisor; not his manager and certainly not his judge or jury.
5. I have no doubt that when he meets Jesus face to face, Jesus and The Father will say--"well done, my good and faithful servant."
I'm also reminded of the vision or visit to the Throne Room in Heaven wherein the visitor saw many prostitutes in the inner most court of Heaven fellowshipping with The Father. But he saw extremely few folks who'd been religious leaders on earth.
I think that was a true vision.
I believe that exiting an elevator as he did was a good idea.
But it wasn't immorality that caused the missionary to write the areas where Graham compromised.
That is one scary looking woman.
I am not comparing Bro. Cloud with Graham. I posted the things I knew about Bro. Cloud after he was attacked by others.
His article concerns the areas where Graham has veered from what Scripture teaches.
THAT is what the discussion should be about, not the messenger.
I am not a protestant. I do not believe in infant baptism.
Billy Graham does, he has had all of his children except one baptized.
And the "One True Church" article concerns the areas where "Brother" Cloud has allegedly veered from the scriptures. The problem is that Brother Cloud (like "the One True Church people) seems to think he has a lock on the mysteries of the bible and that everyone who doesn't think exactly as he does is a rank heretic.
Why post this thread now, when Billy Graham has already retired from the ministry? what purpose (other than to promote your pal "brother" Cloud) is served by this thread?
And why is it that cult members always refer to each other as "brother" ______.
What's most important isn't the hair splits over the tiny shades of meaning that we spend most of our time fighting over. What matters most is: Do we love Jesus with all we have? Do we fulfill his call to be salt and light and leaven to a sin-sick world by how we live and how we love and how we grow in our relationship with Jesus?
Sometimes, articles like this throw dust up where we spend our time worrying about the mechanics instead of loving the Lord with all our hearts, all our souls and all our minds and our neighbor as ourselves.
IMHO, of course.
God's love to you, sister.
The issue is not Missionary Bro. Cloud.
If you agree with the false things Graham has taught, then say so.
If you don't agree with them, so be it, you beleieve the Bible, good on ya.
But please do not trash this thread by making false claims about people you do not know.
Thanks for your input Knitting. :-)
It's certainly more of an issue for discussion regarding doctrine, and the importance of a preacher of the Gospel sticking to what the Bible says.
My opinion is that the more one loves Jesus Christ, the more one adheres to his Words. :-)
If you find something in the article to be untrue, then please by all means point that out.
If not, don't attack the man who wrote the article.
It was written several years ago BTW.
My sense of it, after a few years of this stuff, and a lifetime in ministry is that many Christians desire to follow a man, their protestations to the contrary.
They are normally the ones who pick at "leaders" in Christianity because they think this or that leader doesn't measure up. They find isolated comments or mistakes and it injures this desire within themselves to follow a human being. And darned if they keep finding that people don't measure up to their doctrinal (personal, actually) standards.
After years as a pastor/chaplain, I can tell you that they take it all the way down to the local church level. They can either "follow" their pastor, or they can't.
It's sad really.
The worst thing for me is probably the fact that Graham does not believe that hell is real, and that he believes Pagan people can be saved without Jesus Christ.
I do believe that he is saved.
I don't think that most of the things mentioned are personal standards.
For instance, Graham preaching that pagan people who are good but do not believe in Jesus Christ are saved.
His saying that the Virgin birth is not an important issues.
His belief that infant baptism saves.
His belief that Hell is not real.
Now, if those are "personal standards" what is Scripture?
Is it not important to believe the whole counsel of God?
"The question must be raised as to what purpose is served by posting this thread at this time"
Well I think the reasin is obvious. The writer wants to warn evryone that if they think they were saved under the ministry of BG they are deluding themselves. They weren't really saved just emotionally manipulated by his grave errors like actually quoting from "The Living Word" and even the (gasp) "Message" during one of his crusades. Can you imagine all of the people when they go to their reward finding out it's the down elevator? Wow!
When non-catholics try to tar and feather Rome they sound like babbling Scientologists.
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