Posted on 04/20/2006 4:48:53 PM PDT by Coleus
If you are not married, you should not have relations. Thus, no "birth control" of any kind would be necessary and certainly not sterilization.
I sympathize with you but your decision was wrong. BTW, you are not the only woman who has had problem pregnancies. Still, NFP is the only moral way for couples to deal with this situation.
"Celibate men are in control of the Catholic Church "
You keep saying that. It sounds so funny to hear it said as if being celibate is some horrible thing. It's also funny because they are not "in control" of the church. The Holy Spirit is in control. Jesus established the Catholic Church and promised to be with us always.
I know you don't believe that and will come back with some Scriptural reference to attempt to back up your belief. We can get into that back and forth battle if you want. Just know in advance that nothing will take me away from the Catholic Church. Nothing could get me to leave Jesus in the Eucharist.
Birth control of any kind just reduces a woman into a sex object free for the taking. God's Law is so much more beautiful. Why on Earth would you not want to follow His perfect plan?
I was married, to a Catholic man who thought as you do. That I should use NFP and if any pregnancys slipped through then I was suppose to give the child up for adoption because he didn't want any kids. I'm not a breeder for childless people. I had 2 children in that marriage before it was over. I started having problems carrying my second child.
My 3rd child happened because I'm human and I had another relationship. I had life threatning problems with him, my baby was in danger of dying everyday of that pregnancy, I lived with the fear of losing my child 24/7 of those months.
Even when he was finally big enough to birth he was in trouble, he was breech and one leg slippped out while his other was bent up inside me, I had to have an emergency C-section while they raced to get him out my belly before he came all the way out the natural way and ripped us both apart.
I should also say I have fast birthing times, my very first child in under 3 hours, second in 45 minutes and my 3rd was a frikkin race to surgery. I don't get much time to deal with issues that come up.
No way was I going to put me or another child in danger and leave my other children orphans.
I was in my 30's at the time and knew there would be more relationships in my life. Steralization was recomended and I agreed.
There is Scriptural reason for no contraception. It was given already. I don't buy Tamar73's interpretation. I'll stick with the Early Church Fathers on this one! I thank God for giving us a Church to help settle these differences.
The Church does not state that you have to be a brood mare. You won't find any particular number listed in the Catechism for how many children you are supposed to have. You are upset about something that does not even exsist.
You REALLY should look into taking a Natural Family Planning class. It's cheaper than artificial birth control and so much healthier for your body. I have 3 children by choice. We hope for more. Not everyone using NFP has a big family.
Your attitude about priests seems so ugly. They are servants of God. They love Him so much they have completely dedicated their lives to Him. They are not evil men plotting behind closed doors all the ways they can attempt to make your life miserable. Priests just want to guide us in God's law so that we may have the joy of eternal life with God. I hope one day you can see that.
My argument made no mention of any biblical passage so the reference above is irrelevant to my post.
If reason and natural law are the basis for this prohibition what do reason and natural law say about the perfectly reasonable decision not to expend ourselves as brood mares and impoverish ourselves trying to raise 12-14 children?
Your offensive and inflammatory hyperbole against mothers of large families notwithstanding, there are many licit means available to limit pregnancies for those with legitimate reasons to do so.
Who has standing to tell us what sort of life we will make for ourselves and the children we choose to have?
God, and those whom he has given the authority.
A celibate priest with no scriptural basis for his decision?
Even if there were a perfectly clear scriptural prohibition against contraception, I suspect many mainline protestant denominations would just fabricate a legalistic loop hole to allow their perversions. Despite the unambiguous biblical ban on homosexual sodomy, many large denominations have already begun to permit this as a permissible lifestyle for their congregates and clergy to live out openly.
I think not my friend.
Based on what you have written here, I doubt that you would acknowledge anyone as having any moral standing above your own.
There is no natural law basis for the decision to waste ourselves physically or economically raising countless children
It is far more likely that anyone who claims that children are a physical or economic waste even understands what natural law is.
neither one's neighbor nor a priest has the right to even suggest the nature of the loving relationship a couple may have.
BINGO!!! There we go! Just as Justice Scalia so eloquently predicted, any attempt to justify immoral sexual activity will ultimately lead to a defense of all perversion, such as sodomy, polygamy, and bestiality. You just made the most compelling case against contraception on this whole thread!
After we figured out how my last pregnancy occurred (again - using NFP) we thought it was taken care of.
The truth is...NFP is not 99% effective. They don't really know how long sperm can live - obviously.
I could 4 -5 more babies trying to "figure it out".
NFP is not for everyone and I'm surprised anyone thought it could be the solution for every couple.
It isn't.
Your ex-husband sounds like a nut-case. I never heard of anyone using NFP who would place a baby up for adoption if one were conceived.
But that being said, even if someone has a legitimate reason for not having more children, including health reasons, that still does not justify sterilization. The whole point of the article was that direct sterilization is always wrong. A good end does not justify a bad means. If that were the case, then abortion would be morally permissible if the individual had a good reason for getting one. Or murder. Or theft. Etc.
eyeroll.... well I guess that's just one more sin in my bag I'll have to answer for. I only have so much of myself and money to give. The three kids I have pretty much drain me I don't know what good I could have been for anymore more and I really didn't have the body or mentality to find out.
"eyeroll.... well I guess that's just one more sin in my bag I'll have to answer for. I only have so much of myself and money to give. The three kids I have pretty much drain me I don't know what good I could have been for anymore more and I really didn't have the body or mentality to find out"
We've all got plenty of sins in our own bags.
Inevitably this ban on contraception comes down to how much a woman can take. As it turns out...we don't always have endless supplies of energy, health, stamina, patience, or perseverence.
Enjoy the chains of your blindness and revel in others telling you what to do and believe.
Never heard of him and have no idea who he is.
Yes, if your not Catholic I suppose it would make no sense.
YEAH! Thank goodness that we don't have men as obstetricians and gynecologists! They've never been pregnant or have menstruated!
AND, so glad that there are no young doctors who work with geriatrics!
Oh, wait......
As a single mother, you shouldn't have to worry about getting pregnant, right?
Wrong, I'm human and it only takes one lonely night...besides I didn't plan on being single for the rest of my life. My children are now all old enough to handle a man in my life and I'm not old enough to be past child bearing yet.
But other than Mary's conception by the Holy Spirit, has a baby ever been born without a couple having sex?
Exactly. If a married couple is having sexual problems, a celibate individual should not be counseling them through that.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I assumed that you were Catholic.
"I got a little soured when the priest told me I should still stay married to the man who physically abused me, had affairs, demanded I use no birth control and give any children produced up for adoption."
You were talking to the wrong priest.
It should have been (and still could be) easy for you to obtain an annulment based on what you have shared about this man.
"Meanwhile the church is full of homosexuality and pedophilia... I'm not impressed."
Well...parts of the Church are...the homosexuality that is.
Pedophilia actually is not rampant - most of the abuse cases were comitted by ephebophiles (men attracted to teenage boys).It's a well known fact that the MSM doesn't want to admit to.
The Church leadership has been addressing the homosexuality problem and is now doing a review of seminaries to see what can be practically done.
Problems like this take time unfortunately.
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