Sylvia Poggioli, NPR
Posted on 04/18/2006 9:07:46 AM PDT by NYer
April 16, 2006 · Inscriptions and images found on tombstones, frescoes and mosaics throughout the Mediterranean show that women held respected roles in the early Christian church that were identical to those held by men. They were apostles, priests, deacons and bishops.
But the Vatican's official view of church history presents women in a different light. Recently, a group of 31 American Catholic women, organized by the group FutureChurch, visited Rome to inspect the archeological evidence of female leadership.
Many who made the trip say they were inspired to become more active in their local church communities.
"We would just like to talk to our leaders," said Sister Christine Schenk, co-leader of the pilgrimage, "and tell them of our experience--how we can begin to re-institute that wonderful balanced leadership we had in the first three centuries of both women and men leading the communities."
A mosaic of women who became saints after risking their lives to collect the relics of martyrs, St. Praxedes church, Rome.
A mosaic in St. Praxedes church, Rome. Theodora is on the left with a square halo, indicating she was alive when the mosaic was made.
"Baptism is to be conferred either by immersion or by pouring, in accordance with the provisions of the Episcopal Conference."
Found here: http://www.circleofprayer.com/baptism.html
I personally think immersion is preferable, as being by far more expressive of the idea of being "buried" with Christ; and of course the Scriptural references in the rite paint pictures of total inundation (Noah's flood; the parting of the Red Sea, etc.)
But since Canon law establishes no preference for pouring or immersion, it would depend on whatever guidelines are set down by the Bishop(s).
I hope you can find a better parish. Your bishop should guard the dignity of the liturgy. He should be alerted to these abuses.
The definition of the Greek word that is transliterated as baptism does not allow for anything other than immersion.
The secular definition involves things like "dip," "plunge," or "immerse," but once it's imported into Christian theology, it's a technical term and the secular definition doesn't apply.
There's ample evidence from the writings of the early Christians that they considered baptism by pouring to be acceptable (cf the Didache). The ancient art we have depicting baptism almost always shows the baptizand standing in water that is calf- or knee-deep while water is poured over his or her head. The ancient baptistries used for those baptisms survive in places, and they aren't big or deep enough to (easily) immerse an adult in.
(All that having been said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with baptizing by full-body immersion as long as the Trinity is invoked ... and nobody drowns. ;-))
It's true that in Greek, baptism means immersion. But the Sacrament of Baptism can be given by pouring water over the head.
So, you are claiming that the use of the word "baptizo" by the Holy Spirit was just a coincidence, and has no bearing on the mode of baptism whatsoever? That is a rather bold claim.
Please explain how the Holy Spirit used a word that specifically means "immersion" if pouring was also valid for baptism.
No, I'm claiming that the word took on a specific technical meaning once Christians adopted it.
BTW Our Lord said that the Good Thief crucified at His right hand, would be with Him in Paradise. But the Good Thief wasn't baptized in water at all. So the Church, reflecting on the Scriptures, also teaches "baptism of desire," namely that a person who even implicitly desires baptism can receive sanctifying grace.
Catechism of the Catholic Church: "Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, are saved even if they have not been baptized" (CCC 1281)
"Before you jump ship, here is a listing of parishes within the Boise Diocese."
Link didn't work.
That said, I'm wondering which group it is that's still riding on the Bark of Peter.
"Before you jump ship, here is a listing of parishes within the Boise Diocese."
Link didn't work.
That said, I'm wondering which group it is that's still riding on the Bark of Peter.
Thank you for that description! Was the baby chrismated as well or will that be done in the Latin Rite?
I am very surprised that a Catholic would use the same old, worn out argument that many "faith only" advocates use to explain the thief on the cross.
http://ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=baptism+of+desire&xsubmit=Search&s=SS
I only care what the New Testament teaches about baptism, and that is simply baptism by immersion, and that it is necessary for the forgivness of sins.
"Maybe there is a Maronite church you can find in or around Boise?"
Haven't heard of one yet.
"Also, welcome back to the States."
Thank you.
It nowhere says that.
There's considerable doubt that the 3000 baptized in Jerusalem on Pentecost could have been baptized by immersion, because there is no body of water in or near the city where that could easily be done.
Considering there are were at least 4 pools in Jerusalem at that time that would have had enough water for the baptisms, I don't think that your argument would, excuse my pun, "hold water".
And once again, to claim that the universally accepted meaning of a word has no bearing on the proper mode of baptism is a very weak claim in my opinion.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.