Posted on 04/11/2006 3:41:19 PM PDT by Rockitz
WHAT ARE YOU DOING MAY 19TH?
May 19th is the date the Da Vinci Code movie opens. A movie based on a book that wears its heresy and blasphemy as a badge of honor.
What can we as Christians do in response to the release of this movie? I'm going to offer you the usual choices -- and a new one.
Here are the usual suspects:
A) We can ignore the movie. ........
The problem with this option: The box office is a ballot box. The only people whose votes are counted are those who buy tickets. And the ballot box closes on the Sunday of opening weekend. If you stay home, you have lost your chance to make your vote heard. You have thrown your vote away, and from Hollywood's point of view, you don't count. By staying home, you do nothing to shape the decision-making process regarding what movies will make it to the big screen.
B) We can protest. ........
The problem with this option: It doesn't work. Any publicity is good publicity. Protests not only fuel the box office, they make all Christians look like idiots. And again, protests and boycotts do nothing to help shape the decisions being made right now about what movies Hollywood will make in the next few years. (Or they convince Hollywood to make *more* movies that will provoke Christians to protest, which will drive the box office up.)
C) We can discuss the movie. We can be rational and be ready with study guides and workshops and point-by-point refutations of the lies promulgated by the movie. ........
The problem with this option: No one's listening. They think they know what we're going to say already. We'll lose most of these discussions anyway, no matter how prepared we are, because the power of story always trumps the power of facts (why do you think Jesus taught in parables?!). And once again: rational discussion of history does nothing to affect Hollywood's choices regarding what movies to make.
But there's a fourth choice.
D) On May 19th, you should go to the movies.
Just go to another movie.
Save the date now. May 19th, or May 20th. No later than Sunday, May 21st -- that's the day the ballot box closes. You'll get a vote, the only vote Hollywood recognizes: The power of cold hard cash laid down on a box office window on opening weekend.
Use your vote. Don't throw it away. Vote for a movie other than The DaVinci Code. If enough people do it, the powers that be will notice. They won't have a choice.
The major studio movie scheduled for release against DVC is the DreamWorks animated feature Over the Hedge. The trailers look fun, and you can take your kids. And your friends. And their friends. In fact, let's all go see it.
Let's rock the box office in a way no one expects -- without protests, without boycotts, without arguments, without rancor. Let's show up at the box office ballot box and cast our votes. And buy some popcorn, too.
May 19th. Mark your calendars now: Over the Hedge's opening weekend. Buy a ticket.
And spread the word. Forward this e-mail to all the Christians in your address book. Post it on your blogs. Talk about it to your churches. And let's all go to the movies.
And what is your authority for that list anyway?
Do you have any idea of history and how doctrine is established?
And whether priests should shave their heads in 1271...?
Did you just glob onto this without reading it? This looks like a comic book writer's reading of councils:
The worship of Saints..
What?
The exalting of Josepth..........................890
Yes, he should be unexalted, don't you think?
The doctine of Purgatory offically recommended...1439
Doctrine of confirmation.........................1439
The Book of Apocolypse introduced into cannon....1439
Do you even know what any of this stuff is? Have you ever read anything but virulent anti-papist tracts? Any serious reputed scholarship on history? If so, please cite.
What's your source here Hodar?
Hodar meet counter-reformation. Counter-reformation meet Hodar.
Get back to me when you two have had a nice long chat.
Hodar meet Luther's complete writings and the Peasant's Revolt.
"When you consider actual recorded history of the [your church name here] Church, the actions they have taken (both past and present), forgive me for being a bit skeptical as to the validity of their dogma."
Unless of course, your Church has no or little history. Then you belong to the Church of Men Who Never Did Anything Wrong.
There is a difference between the actions of church officials and the tenets of faith and morals.
Forgive me, I made a logical leap.
Catholic Encylopedia Vol XII page 262
"The Church is not susceptable to being reformed in her doctrines. The church is the work of an incarnate God. Like all of God's works, it is perfect. It is, thereore incapable of reform..."
I submit that it has reformed, numerous times; and continues to reform. For example, what would have happened 50 years ago if a Priest was found to be a homosexual? (To be clear, I'm not saying Pedophile, just that the man is gay) To say that he would be de-frocked is not beyond the realm of belief; it would have likely been manditory. Today, he is welcomed. Each of my points above is a change, or reformation. I further submit, that each reformation may, or may not be closer to the will of God; rather these changes are due to the will of man, in their entirety.
This is where I believe we disagree. A church, by definition, is an extension of those who run it. No church, no matter how hard they may strive for moral and virtuous actions; can be led by immoral leadership. For corruption spreads, and is intolerable to the presence of God.
"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever - Hebrews 13:8
Wherefor, by their fruits ye shall know them - Matthew 7:17-20 (short version)
Now that's a particularly fine gem of scholarship.
Have you read the writings of the early church fathers? You know you can almost completely reconstruct the New Testament from them. Closely guarded secrets.. Sheesh.
Who was responsible for collecting, codifiying, preserving, protecting and copying the Bible - in Greek and Latin. What was the language of literate people then and earlier? And how many translations into the vernacular were in circulation from the seventh century on - during this "closely guarded secret" days?
When was the printing press invented? What was the first book Gutenberg printed in 1454 - which quickly sold out of its first printing.
"Up until Martin Luther, the bible was a closely guarded secret."
"it was an effect of God power, that the Papacy should have remained, in the first place, sacred baptism; secondly, the text of the Holy Gospels which it was custom to read from the pulpit in the vernacular tongue of every nation..." (Martin Luther)Even Martin Luther disagrees with you. Where do you get this stuff?
Yes, very true, we have the most basic disagreement on this issue. I believe Jesus established His Church and has protected it as He promised: And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. This is His Church and I freely joined it. He established it at gave authority to it through the apostles.
If you understand this is my belief, then many of your questions to me will be answered for you.
Please bear in mind that the Catholic Encyclopedia is in no way an official source or record for the Catholic Church. However, since you cite it's "incapable of reform" comment, it's of note that it also has an article, The Counter-Reformation.
It's a very long article, I'm not expecting you, or anyone, to read it; there are better sources on the times. I'm just citing it here in response.
Actually, there is an element of heresy in the question.
Consider recent positions by homosexuals to advance alternate theologies to support their addiction to homosexuality.
One of their major tenants is that within their DNA, God has created them as homosexual so it couldn't be bad. Such a position fails to grasp the significance of the work of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.
After the fall in the Garden of Eden, every human born has had an element of sin in their genetic composition which has been passed by the male chromosome. Mary need not have been a perfect person to have conceived the Perfect Lamb, but the seed of that conception was from the Holy Spirit, which is perfect. Jesus Christ was then born, as the second Adam, perfect in body, soul and spirit. Accordingly, He was qualified to be presented as the Perfect Sacrifice to God the Father.
In the event, Jesus Christ had indeed born a son physically, then the same perfect genetic makeup would have been passed to His child. Unlike all other humans throughout the history of mankind, such a sibling could uniquely qualify as not requiring salvation, unless at another time by his own volition he sinned. It might also be advanced that his body might not die naturally, but might possibly already have eternal life as procreated from Christ.
This type of delusion might be used by a fallen angel if possessing the body of another and attempting to develop a system of false governance on the Earth.
Returning to the issue of homosexuals, no person born is void of a DNA marker making them predisposed to sin. Accordingly, submission to sin as one's false god doesn;t usher in salvation, rather the person who remains mired in their sin simply remains dead in the spirit and still lacking salvation. We are condemned before we are saved.
Advocating a genetic lineage of Christ implies a race may exist immune to His rule, which IMHO, might easily be considered as blasphemous.
Romans 8:16-17: "The Spirit itself baeareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God; And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ."
I submit that we are all 'of Christ', or some aspect of divinity exists within us all.
Mark 7: 7-13 (Paraphased) "But vainly do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
The Crimson Thread of Redemption runs through every book in Scripture. Many seminaries require their students, when they survey the Old Testament, to write an essay focused on that crimson thread of redemption in one OT book of their choosing.
The extrabiblical texts aren't necessarily evil (unless one advocates only Scripture continuously remains in fellowship with God in its communicate as His Word), but I would consider the issue differently.
Remember how Lazurus and the rich man were in Hades, Lazurus in Abraham's Bosom, while the rich man burned and suffered in the Torments? The rich man appealed that even if lazurus could not come across the gulf between Abraham's Bosom and the Torments, at least to permit someone to return to warn his brothers of the Torments. The response was that if man rejected the knowledge of miracles, even that particular notice would not be sufficient to change the situation or their hearts.
In one sense, God has already provided His Word for us in Scripture. Now with that said, can we confidently, in faith with him, sincerely state we have thoroughly metabolized all of Scripture to the point that for us to continue in our sancitfication we need more Scripture or revelation?
IMHO, it might even be the case, that in His grace He hasn't provided us more, because with the greater provision, the more responsibility we bear to live according to His Word.
I know for myself that although I might have been very zealous to acquire even more than I had when I was younger, I also recognize I am scarred in my thinking to the point I probably fail to recognize how incredibly sinful our sin really has been in scarring our perception of what He has already so gracefully provided.
I agree with you that these issues are not to be determined by man, other than Christ Jesus in Hypostatic Union, but even with the little bit of Scripture we have,..some 66 books, our spiritual grasp of that Scripture is still only provided by His grace as we return to Him after confession and repentance, so that the Holy SPirit might take our thinking and very much like the heart, or CARDIA reprocess that thinking in the soul so that it become perspicuous for edification in the spirit.
IMHO, I dare say, I have not nearly advanced in that sanctification with the Scripture made so easily available to us today, moreso than any other time in human history in this mystery Church Age, but I still rejoice that He makes it available and continues to allow me to grow as I remain faithful in Him.
IMHO, the extrabiblical books might provide some insight to the world at the time, but are also likely sources of counterfeit spiritual positions, distractions, and interruptions to what He has already so gracefully provided. Nevertheless, they probably serve a purpose in His plan in the angelic conflict, so I do not consider them blasphemous, but simply extrabiblical information.
Nonetheless, we still have an old sin nature. This was not existant in our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus. The physical seed of such a man, likewise would not have to sacrifice the old man in order to find the kingdom of God.
BTW, outstanding response, and good choice of Scripture. I agree with you that as Christians, ...believers, we are indwelt while in fellowship with Him by all three presons of the Godhead at various times.
The point I was bringing up, in regards to the "Di Vinci Code" assertion of Christ having physical offspring from his own sexual intercourse, is that this would make other theologic implications, which I suspect are false and merely part of a grander counterfeit scheme.
In other words, IMHO, there is something more significant or machination being proposed than simply suggesting Christ had a sexual fling. IMHO, we only see the tip of a false iceburg.
This is a part that gives me pause. I find it almost unfathomable to think that as an adolescent, he did not sin (by thought, word or deed). Granted, I believe he asked for forgiveness daily; but if he had cast no sin; what would you beg forgiveness for? If he married, then sex is no sin; for are we not commanded to 'Go forth and multiply'? Is striking out in violence and physically rebuking another sinner a sin? Then, was Christ's (justified) outburst against the money-changers in the temple a sin? I think he lived the perfect life, in that he accomplished his goals, as only the Son of God could, but ascribing a sin-less quality is not scripturally represented. This is an attribute that has been attached to Christ by man.
Why would the off-spring of Jesus be considered 'perfect'. Granted, it's pretty hard to trump the lineage; but regardless of your ancestry, you have Adam and Eve to thank for the propensity to sin.
i THINK that this is but the beginning of many horrid delusionary, fanciful, hideous postulations in these end times.
The heavy duty one ahead is that ET's created man and all the religious leaders of history.
Which is harder to believe? A child is born, heralded by angels. This child is given gifts from 3 wisemen, who dissappear and never re-appear again. No follow-up visits, no monitary support, no built-in congregation. Jesus creates matter for a wedding feast, heals the sick, raises the dead,and fasts for 40 days/nights in the desert neither eating, nor drinking. This man is welcomed into Jerusalem by throngs with Palm leaves for his donkey to walk on, and then tortured to death a few weeks later. He dies, is buried and raises from the dead 3 days later. He appears to his disciples, and then floats into the heavens
......... or .......
A 20'something year old man marries and has children over 2000 years ago.
How does this extrapolate to pervert, distract from, or reduce his message? The bible simply doesn't say either way. To add to this confusion; there are 15 Books of the Bible that have been removed. There are nearly 12 years of Jesus's life that are unexplained in the New Testament. If he was married and had kids; or if he died a bachelor .... it simply doesn't matter to his plan for our salvation.
As far as the marriage of Christ theory, I have stated numerous times in this thread that I do not know that I believe in it, and in fact am skeptical of it. Thus any biases you claim are influencing my thoughts on that subject are irrelevant since they obviously did not effect my belief. If they had, I would be here argueing that the theory were true. There are plenty of indisputable crimes by the RCC and relying on a questionable one, such as alledgedly maligning Mary Magdalene, is unnecessary in order to condemn them.
You can live in denial of the crimes of the RCC throughout history all ya like. Go ahead, pretend such things as the inquisitions, witchhunts, and crusades did not occur. Pretend that they did not hold mankind in bondage to ignorance for centuries, and that they did not murder anyone who dared defy doctrine by proposing such heresy as the Earth being round. Pretend that they did not sell out on principles, adopting pagan practices, holidays, and idolatry, in order to gain power as the official religion of the State. Their crimes are many and manifest, and to state so is not an insult, but merely a statement of fact. If you feel offended by having the crimes of your church pointed out to you.. then perhaps you should convert to a church which has not commited such crimes. If you wish to live in denial of the truth, then your ignorance is not my concern.
Ah yes, and all written in a language not legible to the masses.
Far be it for me to correct you; but ....The correct response is:
Intentionally written in a language that is neither legible, nor taught to anyone outside the Catholic sphere of influence. The sole intent for having priest learn latin; was to prevent the masses from reading the bible for themselves. Also, bear in mind that the Gutenberg Press was not invented until 1450; thus each Bible was hand-written and was far beyond the financial means to all but the very wealthy, or upper-level members of the clergy.
Keep it simple. Try studying Scripture first through faith in Christ with God being your teacher. After you have advanced in those studies, then pursue the questions you ask. BTW the questions you are asking are incredibly irrelevant. it only takes a little more faith than absolutely no faith such as you have displayed, then allow a saving faith by the work of God.
If you think the significance of Jesus Christ is simply a worldly religious figure, you've misunderstood the significance of Scripture.
God Bless.
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