Your just jealous that he was buddies with Rick Warren.
Posted on 04/07/2006 3:06:39 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
A reader writes:
I had never heard you address this on your show or Blog – though I’m certain you are familiar with it and have covered it before. But what gives about the story of JPII kissing the Koran?! I’ve seen it mentioned enough times by serious Catholics to accept this must have happened. However, I don’t know the context of this event or any other details so I can only wonder what our late Holy Father might have been thinking… Your thoughts?
This question has come up over the years, and I know that I've addressed it on the show (though I don't have the faintest idea in what episodes), but I don't seem to have done so on the blog, so here goes. . . .
First, I've reprinted the famous picture of the event above so that people can see what is being talked about.
Based on the picture alone, I would not be sure what is happening. The book is ornate and could be something other than the Quran. From the looks of it, it could be a book of the gospels.
However, the former Chaldean patriarch--Raphael Bidawid--was present at the meeting where the event occurred, and in an interview with the press service FIDES, he said the following:
On May 14th I was received by the Pope, together with a delegation composed of the Shi'ite imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni president of the council of administration of the Iraqi Islamic Bank. There was also a representative of the Iraqi ministry of religion. I renewed our invitation to the Pope, because his visit would be for us a grace from heaven. It would confirm the faith of Christians and prove the Pope's love for the whole of humanity in a country which is mainly Muslim.
At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book, the Qu'ran, presented to him by the delegation, and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam [SOURCE].
What, then, is one to make of the event?
It seems that there are a number of possibilities:
1) The FIDES news agency misquoted the patriarch.
2) Patriarch Bidawid was mistaken about what happened. It was not the Quran but something else.
3) John Paul II kissed the Quran but didn't know the nature of the book he was kissing.
4) John Paul II kissed the Quran and knew that this is what he was doing.
I would love to think that either option (1), (2), or (3) was the case, but I have no evidence that any of them was the case.
The most likely one of the three, to my mind, would be (3), because so far as I know, John Paul II was not an Arabic speaker and may not have understood the nature of the book that he was being presented with.
People shove all kinds of books into the pope's hands at audiences, and if the pope was under the impression that the thing to do with a gift in Iraqi culture is to kiss it as a sign of respect to the one who gives the gift then he might have kissed it reflexively, not even understanding the nature of the book.
While this is possible, I think it likely that an interpreter explained the nature of the gift that was being given on this occasion. This still leaves the possibility that the pope kissed it as part of Middle Eastern politeness rather than as a gesture of respect for the book itself.
I have heard claims that in some Middle Eastern cultures that this is a typical gesture of respect for one giving a gift, but I have asked Chaldean friends of mine whether this is the case in Iraqi culture and the answer was a definite "No." "The pope put his foot on the neck of all Chaldeans with this action" was the response I was given. (Just to make things clear, putting your foot on the neck of someone is a bad thing in Iraqi culture.)
Still, the pope may have been under the mistaken impression that this was the appropriate thing to do when receiving a gift in their culture. He can't be an expert on every culture in the world, and he could get this wrong.
Or maybe he didn't.
Maybe he knew it was the Quran and kissed it anyway, not as a customary gift giving response, but for some other reason.
What might that reason be?
It certainly wouldn't be that he believes in Islam or believes that Islam is on a par with Christianity. If he believed either of these two things then he (a) wouldn't be the earthly head of the Christian faith and (b) wouldn't have approved the publication of Dominus Iesus, which asserts the salvific universality of Jesus Christ and the Church.
Any attempt to represent him as thinking one of those things doesn't even get out of the gate.
So what might he have been thinking?
We're only speculating here, but two things spring to mind as what JP2 might have been thinking:
1) The Quran does contain some elements of truth (as well as grave elements of falsehood) and he might have wanted to honor the elements of truth it contains.
2) Showing respect in this way could foster world peace and interreligious harmony.
Of these two, I would conjecture that the latter would have been uppermost in John Paul II's mind, though the former may not have been absent.
John Paul II was a man who was enormously concerned with world peace and interreligious harmony. As a young man he lived through the horrors of World War II, which had a permanent effect on him and his generation and their views about war and peace.
As a mature man he lived through the Cold War that repeatedly brought the world to the brink of nuclear disaster, and this also had a permanent effect on him and his generation and their views about war and peace. The constant threat of nuclear warfare hung particularly heavily over Europe--which would have been the chief battleground in a conflict between the Soviet Union and the West--and (particularly on the heels of WWII) it deeply impressed the "find peace at any cost" message on his generation.
As a result of the Cold War, the nations of western Europe were forced into an alliance (NATO) whereby their centuries-long enmities (as between France and Germany) had to be suppressed for the sake of common survival. Negotiation became the key to survival in western Europe, and the same message was driven home to those in Eastern bloc countries, such as John Paul II's native Poland.
By letting the US shoulder the main burden for the military defense of Europe (during and after the Cold War), many Europeans of John Paul II's generation absorbed the idea that negotiation was paramount and could solve virtually any problem. It wasn't until the events of the Global War On Terror that this idea began to be seriously called into question many in European circles.
As a result, as a man of his generation, John Paul II--for the best of motives--may have overestimated both the need for and the utility of gestures such as the one exhibited in the Quran-kissing event.
If the former pontiff did understand that the gift was a Quran and if he wasn't under the impression that kissing a gift was a standard response in Iraqi culture then I would suppose that he did so out of a desire to foster peace and interreligious harmony, but it would still have been a mistake to my mind.
The Quran, whatever elements of truth it contains, also contains venomous attacks on the divinity of Christ and on Christian doctrine and these make it inappropriate for the Vicar of Christ to kiss it under any circumstances.
John Paul II also may not have been attending to the gravity of the false elements in the Quran. Even if he knew them, he may not have been thinking about them and may have acted on the spur of the moment, without fully thinking through his action.
Fortunately, the infallibility of the pope and the indefectibility of the Church do not extend to such actions. A pope is not attempting to make anything remotely like a dogmatic definition in an act of this nature. And so, however misguided the action may have been and however good the motives for it may have been, it would constitute an error that does not touch upon papal infallibility or ecclesial indefectibility.
It would be one of the mistakes that all fallen humans are heir to, even the vicars of Christ
I'm guessing he didn't know much about the Koran. I know I always used to think Islam as a peaceful and kind religon that was exploited by terrorists until I read it for myself. It's sad that the truth is not known by 99% of people.
LOL. Ah, the good old days. I wonder how Harley's Aunt Betty's doing...
Your just jealous that he was buddies with Rick Warren.
It should not be taken as an indication of approval for everything contained within.
John Paul II kissed the ground every time he visited America but that does not imply Papal approval of abortion on demand, the slaughter of 30 million unborn, our crazy pro-homosexual social engineering and our ever expanding use and dissemination of pornography.
Did JPII ever kiss the Constitution of the United States when he visited the USA? The Communist Manifesto, when JPII visited Communist Poland in 1979? Would Pius XII have kissed a copy of Mein Kamph, had he visited Germany during WWII?
There's a profound difference between kissing the ground, and kissing the Koran. Unless you want to argue as some have (but not me), that the Pope was either ignorant or not in his right mind at the time.
***Would Pius XII have kissed a copy of Mein Kamph, had he visited Germany during WWII?***
Maybe not the best example.
This is somewhat out of context, BTW. In context in the Vatican II document, the Muslims are "in the first place" after having discussed (a) other Christians; and (b) the Jews.
IOW, Muslims are "in the first place" after adherents of the religions we recognize as being divinely instituted.
The Muslims don't adore the merciful God, they adore the vengeful god.
That's not what they say, though. In fact, doesn't the Koran begin "In the name of Allah, the benificent, the merciful ..."?
Jimmy Akin is on staff at Catholic Answers, and is 100% orthodox AFAIK. (He wouldn't be there otherwise.)
Popes make mistakes. Popes also commit sins. Some Popes make big mistakes and some commit big sins. Those facts aren't at odds with Catholic doctrine.
Acting out of ignorance or carelessness is my vote. The technical term is "a boneheaded move". Most everyone has made a few from time to time.
Starting with a lie doesn't speak well for the rest of the book. Applying the infidal tax is considered merciful in Islam.
If faith in a creator is all that is now required, then Christ died in vain. He didn't. Without faith in Christ, Muslims are lost.
Sorry, but you are wrong. The woman was a married Catholic lady. The anointing, called "aarti," is a formal greeting in Indian culture without much or any religious significance.
Your theology is confused. Nothing is "now required," because you can't save yourself under any circumstances. Nothing you can do can earn your salvation. Nothing a Muslim can do can earn his salvation, either.
Salvation is a free gift, and God is free to give that gift under any circumstances to those to whom he wishes to give it.
However, everyone who is saved is saved by the application of the merits of Jesus Christ.
Well, there are plenty of other lies before you get to the last page. I'm just telling you what Muslims claim to believe in.
As for the Constitution of the USA, he may well have kissed it had it been presented to him, as the Koran was presented to him. However, it is a secular document and as such it is on a somewhat different level. The Koran on the other hand, as a religious document, is the credo of a religion which has certain threads in common with Catholicism. Additionally, there have been and still are a number of moral issues held in common. For instance, the Vatican's main allies in its long and often lonely battle with the U.N. to prevent abortion being enshrined as a universal human right, have been Islamic countries.
The Communist Manifesto was not presented to John Paul II and he would not have kissed it if it had been as it is the world's premier document of atheism, unbelief and irreligion and diametrically opposed to theism.
There's a profound difference between kissing the ground, and kissing the Koran.
I believe the emotions which moved the Pope to do these things are actually one and the same. They may be interpreted differently for sure, but I believe they are both gestures of fraternal love.
Jesus would disagree with your hyper-Calvinism. Salvation is free, by faith, not works.
Arian heresy heresy. But wait! The Sunnis claim the Shiites are heretics! They must be Arian heresy heresy heretics. But wait, some of these are secular, and some go to the Baptist church on the corner because it is convenient.
I had no idea that you were personally able to tell me what Jesus would think. That's more than my parish priest claims to do.
Neither you nor I are qualified to decide who's going to hell, excepting of course the person we see in the mirror. Nor is it even good for us to think about such things; the temptation to pride is far too great.
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