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To: wmfights
You wrote: "I've heard this explanation numerous times, but your actions speak louder than words...In your Church's you build statues of Mary that parishioners bow down before and pray to."

I can see that --- with the best of intentions --- you're running into a kind of cultural perplexity about such things as bowing and praying and so forth.

Neither of these actions implies worship, in the sense of the supreme honor and adoration which is due to God alone. People in many cultures bow and curtsey to show honor to parents, rulers, elders; and so it is in Catholic culture. A person might bow their head at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier or at the Holocaust Memorial, just to show a spirit of solemnity and respect. And we Catholics even bow to each other at certain points. Yet we do not regard each other as Gods! (Really!) It's simply our custom to show outward signs of reverence.

Even if this seems culturally foreign to you, it is only fair that you should take our word for it. WE know whether we are "worshipping" Mary or not. If you do not accept our own testimony concerning our own beliefs and intentions, you would be implying that we are lying to you. Can't you see how unjust and obtuse that would be?

As for the matter of prayer, it is a common thing for all Christians to offer intercessory prayer for each other. And we read in Revelation 5:8 that this holy intercession continues in heaven:

Now when he had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

It's quite clear that the "elders" are offering the prayers of the saints. They are interceding. Notice that all prayer ultimately goes to God, even if it's your grandma that's praying for you.

I just wanted you to see that honoring God-loving people and asking for their intercession are normal daily practices of Christians everywhere. Thre's nothing spooky-dooky about asking your fellow-servants to pray for you, and certainly nothing idolatrous.

Please pray for me?

131 posted on 03/02/2006 2:06:21 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my All.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
"If you do not accept our own testimony concerning our own beliefs and intentions, you would be implying that we are lying to you."

I don't believe you are intentionally lying. I believe because you are a part of a church that teaches its members that it can not err your vision is blurred. I believe you are truly sincere, but misguided.
______________________________________

"Now when he had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

It's quite clear that the "elders" are offering the prayers of the saints."

In Rev 5:8 your right the elders are holding the bowls of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. They are presenting the prayers to GOD at his timing, just as Angels present prayers of the saints to GOD in REV 8:3-4. In both instances the prayers are being presented to GOD at GOD'S timing. I don't see any elders asking for special consideration for particular prayers they have heard.

BTW, since Revelations has examples of prayers being presented to GOD by Angels do you also pray to Angels to present your prayers? Why not go straight to our SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST he's the one who blessed us with his sacrifice.

JESUS promised all believers in JOHN 6:37 "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away."

As a believer there is no reason to go to anyone but JESUS. He promised he won't drive us away.
142 posted on 03/02/2006 8:40:38 PM PST by wmfights (Lead, Follow, or get out of the Way!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
"I just wanted you to see that honoring God-loving people and asking for their intercession are normal daily practices of Christians everywhere. Thre's nothing spooky-dooky about asking your fellow-servants to pray for you, and certainly nothing idolatrous."

I think that asking LIVING human beings to pray with you is very SCRIPTURAL. However, I think asking the dead to intercede for you is "detestable to the LORD."

DEU 18:10-12 "Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD,..."

"consults the dead" isn't that what your doing when your asking MARY to intercede for you, or help you with a problem?
143 posted on 03/02/2006 8:49:55 PM PST by wmfights (Lead, Follow, or get out of the Way!)
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