Posted on 02/24/2006 8:40:59 AM PST by conserv371
Right now there is huge debate going on about whether the church will go through the tribulation. After studying some passages that seem to convincingly lean toward a pre-trib rapture. First of all, Jesus in Luke 17:26, states that "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of Man." We learn of two key individuals during that time Enoch and Noah. Enoch who some have seen as a type of the church is translated before the Flood while Noah is delivered through the world-wide judgment.
We also find in Luke 12:37-40 gives evidence it could happen at second or third watch like a thief and to be ready since the Son of man comes at an hour when you don't think He will come. Jesus further exhorts that servants may start treating fellow servants harshly and getting drunk. The lord will come in a day when he looks not for him and at an hour when he is not aware. This seems to suggest some semblance of peace since drunkeness occurs in this case with ease. In fact, the servant has said in his heart, "My lord delays in his coming"; These give the appearance of a lack of persecution going on world-wide since the servant is not watching. With persecution, there would be no time for drunkeness since people would be hiding for their lives.
James states in 5:8b "for the coming of the Lord draws near."
In I Thess. 5:2, the Apostle Paul states that "the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night." What does a professional thief do? He plunders the house without the occupants waking up until morning to find their valuables gone. Again there is calm while the robbery is taking place. Furthermore Paul states, they shall say Peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes upon them, as birth pains upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. This seems to indicate there is a them and us. Sudden destruction on them but you are not surprised. In vs. 9, 10 he states "For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. The tribulation is the wrath of the Lamb so why would the Jesus put wrath of His spiritual body after His physical body experienced God's wrath.
Also, in II Thess. we find that the Holy Spirit with whom believers are sealed with is prevent the mystery of iniquity to work fully. The Holy Spirit must be taken out of the way before the wicked one "Anti-christ" is revealed. All mention of the churches goes silent after chapter 3 of Revelation while the man of peace (Anti-christ)on the white horse shows up in Rev. 6. The last church (Laodicean church) is not looking for the rapture. Also, Christ states to the church of Philadelphia that he will keep them from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (Tribulation)
No, the truth is we must watch and be ready for Christ's imminent return. I believe the rapture will be a cataclysmic event that make the world beg for a ruler of peace to calm down the world. God likes to have major events to display His power so it would seem likely that the Tribulation will begin with the vanishing of Christ's spiritual body which states in Romans 11:25 requires the fulness of the Gentiles be come in before it happens which is when God will take away the blindness of Israel. Right now, when a google search is done, one can see many people turning to christ. The harvest rate is accelerating. Jesus at Rev. 22:20 says, "Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus."
I love talking about it, not much for agueing
Until we see Him face to face, none of us will have all the answers.
Have a great week
I believe these are the tribulation saints, who missed the rapture then were saved. They will indeed reign with Christ during the millenium, as will we.
If the Church was to go through the tribulation, it would hardly be a blessed hope to look forward to. I believe if Christ meant for the Church to go through the tribulation, there would be specific instructions how to do so.
Pauls teaching on the rapture in thessolonians tells us to comfort one another with these words, not scare the living daylights out of each other with these words
= = =
Excellent points I hadn’t thought about before. Thanks for your greatly enlightening post.
God’s best to you and yours.
Please ping me when you get back to it. I like iron sharpening iron discussions.
I’d known it was not Darby and that it was around in the first centuries. But I’d never read a good summary of that evidence before. I think this is just part of such evidence.
Amen.
Thanks Quix. The thought of being raptured is a glorious thought to me, be it pre- mid- or post-trib, getting caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord Jesus is a magnificent event which I look forward to.
I try to live my life now in such a way that my habits and my strength of character are at a point that if the Evil Days begin and we of saving faith are still here, that I will overcome until the end, please, Lord, make it so. That my heart doesn’t grow cold, that I don’t accept the mark of the beast, and that my hope and trust remain anchored in Jesus, the One Who forgives sin and conquers evil.
If it turns out we are raptured BEFORE the tribulation, I’m not gonna cling to my front porch and yell, NO NO I WON’T GO, IT’S TOO SOON !!!
I’m gonna say, GLORY HALLELUJAH THANK YOU JESUS and then I’ll sing and shout the victory on my way up to be with Him.
Meanwhile, I am praying for all those I love and all those I come in contact with and for the whole world to be made ready so that they may share with those of us who by faith have a place in His eternal Kingdom.
Thanks, Quix. I am still not convinced of pre trib but,as I said before, I’ll grab my ticket at the station when the train pulls in.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
I understand. Bee back and forth on it myself over a lot of years.
This LaHaye, Jenkins book is well done—better than most I’ve read on such.
Please consider this thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1826338/posts?page=1
For an update on Babylon
WOW! Your attitude in this post is what I've been looking for in an "end-times" discussion. I too yearn for learning through God's word without arguments and condescension.
Thanks, Quix for re-posting this too.
Wiley
Thanks thanks.
Sure. Thanks for your kind and well put responses.
People seem to be looking for a Tribulation with a capital “T” when the Bible refers to tribulation with a little “t”. In the 24th Chapter of Matthew, it refers to “after the tribulation of those days” as being the time when Christ would return. Who knows? Perhaps the earth has been in the tribulation ever since Christ ascended.
Given the great pains The Lord went to
in order to spell out specific numbers of days and weeks etc.
I think that hypothesis is highly improbable . . . so much so, as to be impossible, to me.
Folks may find the thread of excerpts from
ARE WE LIVING IN THE END TIMES
at this thread of interest:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1826338/posts?page=1
Pretty clear that this describes "the rapture", only problem is this happens after the first six seals are opened. One has to stretch pretty far to ignore it. The "Oh, those are the people who came to the Lord after the rapture" is real thin as they were have mentioned, while the main body was ignored in the text.
Nope, pre-trib is wishful thinking. Specially since the first two seals have already happened.
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