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To: Dr. Eckleburg

According to you is it God who condemned some folks to sin and then turns around after they've sinned (which he pre-destined them to do) and tells them -- you sinned, even though I planned that you would sin and that you have no choice in the matter -- since I planned it -- anyway, so, you sinned and you're going to heck?


175 posted on 02/24/2006 1:49:06 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Ultra-Catholic)
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To: Cronos; HarleyD; Forest Keeper
All men sin, all the time. Our only hope is faith in Jesus Christ. All who possess Trinitarian faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior are most likely saved since faith is the tangible evidence of our salvation, not a requirement for it.

We love Him because He first loved us.

Faith, like all gifts from God, is bestowed by His benevolent mercy, and is not a work of our own fallen hearts. Given a choice, men will always revert to their true nature and flee God. That's what Scripture tells us. To deny this is to deny what God has told us of ourselves. More importantly, it denies what God has told us of Himself. A big no-no.

I've given you verses from the Bible which clearly state that anything good in or from us is directly the result of God's will.

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." -- Philippians 2:13

I've given you verses which quote Jesus as saying He does not pray for the entire world; He prays for the sheep whom God has given Him because they are already His, according to His will, and that He will lose none whom the Father has given Him.

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. " -- John 17:9

But you ignore those verses and instead fall back on the easy gibberish of rehashed Pelagianism dressed up as some kind of murky unitarianism. Fine with me. All discernment is given by God.

I once believed a lot of the stuff you're pitching. Human beings really really want to believe they are in control and that God only shadows this world. In truth, God colors every thought and action and determines the course of every atom in the universe.

It is an exhilarating realization; I urge everyone to contemplate it. God is in complete and total control, all ways, every day, past, present, future. That's part of the job description for our God. Praise Him. Thank Him. Worship Him. Glorify Him in every thought and deed.

""But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." -- Titus 3:4-7

We are sinners to the end, saved from before the beginning by His mercy alone.

179 posted on 02/24/2006 10:10:44 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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