How Tradition Gave Us the Bible

Assoc of Students at Catholic Colleges ^ | Mark Shea

[AlaninSA]

The Catholic Church drove the current structure of the Bible. Denial of that displays ignorance of Christian history.

As for "fundie nuts," anyone who believes that the Bible suddenly fell from the sky in perfect KJV translation is seriously in need of therapy.

[PetroniusMaximus]

"This doesn't make sense to me. Holy Tradition and Holy Scripture support each other."

Let me give you an example. We find the Catholic practice of praying to Mary and the saints to be out of step with the Bible. In the Bible you will never find a believer calling out in prayer to anyone other than God.

Nevertheless, Catholic tradition holds that this is a good and beneficial thing to pray to the saints. In fact, IIRC, it may be seen as a necessary thing in order to be saved or reduce time in purgatory.

This practice of praying to saints is integral to Catholic theology yet it finds no support in Scripture. The Catholic Church claims, implicitly, that it has the authority to give the OK to a practice that has no Scriptural support and is, to the mind of many, actually an anti-Scriptural practice.

[Salvation]

But you aren't reading the entire Bible. Why do you think those books got lelft out of the King James and other versions??

Have you read these other books?


And you are aware, aren't you, that Martin Luther changed out some words to support some of his notions, aren't you?

[PetroniusMaximus]

"And in the Acts of the Apostles, Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to Peter!"

How does Peter unlock the Kingdom in the book of Acts?


By preaching the Gospel!

Those who hear, repent and believe in Jesus are let in. Peter is still letting people into the Kingdom via the Scriptures to this very day. Those who faithfully preach the Gospel are his true heirs and hold those keys also.

[PetroniusMaximus]

"The Catholic Church drove the current structure of the Bible"

What in the Wide World of Sports does that mean? "drove the current structure..."???


"As for "fundie nuts," anyone who believes that the Bible suddenly fell from the sky in perfect KJV translation is seriously in need of therapy."

Your starting in awfully early with the name calling. Get to know me better and you'll be better able to pull off some truly stinging barbs.

[whispering out loud]

"You ignorant fool."

You should read Matt 5;22

"Put down the Chick tracts and open your mind to the fact that we (a)don't worship Mary and (b) do not worship saints. You may have Catholic friends, but if they're telling you that these things go on...they're far from Catholic."

"chick tracts"? anyway Why are people bidding thousands, and even hundreds of thousands of dollars on oddities with "the virgin Mary" somehow imprinted on them? sounds like worship to me. And what of these medals of the saints?
"Thou shalt not make unto thyself any graven image, or likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Once again sounds like worship to me.

"Why the hatred?"

I have no hatred for you or your faith, I just find fault with anyone who claims exclusive right to discern the scriptures, If you deny that then you need to go back and reread this thread.

"What is your real deal? What exactly do you claim to follow? That is, Where do you go to church? Bubba's Community Bible of BFE Arkansas?"

My real deal is I'm tired of Catholics claiming exclusive right to the scriptures, and the foundation of the church.
I follow Jesus Christ, and I currently attend a Southern Baptist Fellowship, and shock shock, we claim no exclusivity to the Word of God, nor Christ himself, but we do claim him as Lord of our lives, and our savior.

[PetroniusMaximus]

"Have you read these other books? "

I have, and I like 'em. But I agree with Jerome that, though they are instructive, they are not inerrantly inspired.

Now if you have an example from them of someone praying to anyone other than God I would be glad to take a look at it.

[Buggman]

Does it never cease to irk you that the Catholic Church IS the Church of the apostles?

No, it just irks us when you pretend to something you're not.

[Buggman]

Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.

Funny, that's what the Pharisees said.

[Buggman]

I won't even get into false claims of "worship" of Mary and the saints. That's been rebutted ad nauseam here. Your Catholic friends aren't Catholic if they claim to worship any but God.

So these guys aren't Catholic?

[Buggman]

The Catholic Church descends in a direct line from Peter.

Only if you a) consider descent more important than obedience to the Scriptures, which God never has, and b) ignore all the simony.

Besides, every Protestant minister has had hands laid on him by a minister of his denomination, who had hands laid on by his minister, in an unbroken line going back to the Reformers--most of the originals of which, like Luther, were Catholic priests before recognizing the conflict between Catholic tradition and Scripture. By that standard, we can claim "lineage" from Peter as well.

[Buggman]

Amen, brother.

[Buggman]

Put down the Chick tracts and open your mind to the fact that we (a)don't worship Mary and (b) do not worship saints.

So what do you call this, then?

[whispering out loud]

"Doh!!!"

[whispering out loud]

It's about time someone else on this thread started making some sense.

[Buggman]

That's okay--the Catholic claim that their traditions have anything to do with the Apostles, who were all distinctly Jewish and Torah-observant, always tickles mine, as does the claim that St. Peter's "throne," which was variously won by large purses or military might on several occassions, has had an "unbroken" line of apostolic succession.

[whispering out loud]

yeah they don't clutch engraved medals and pray to "The Saints" either. Oh wait a minute they do.