Vatican may have found late pope's 'miracle'

CNN ^ | January 30, 2006 | Philip Pullella

[NYer]

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) -- The Vatican may have found the "miracle" they need to put the late Pope John Paul II one step closer to sainthood -- the medically inexplicable healing of a French nun with the same Parkinson's disease that afflicted him.

Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Catholic Church official in charge of promoting the cause to declare the late pope a saint of the Church, told Reuters on Monday that an investigation into the healing had cleared an initial probe by doctors.

Oder said the "relatively young" nun, whom he said he could not identify for now, was inexplicably cured of Parkinson's after praying to John Paul after his death last April 2.

"I was moved," Oder said in a telephone interview. "To think that this was the same illness that destroyed the Holy Father and it also kept this poor nun from carrying out her work."

John Paul suffered from Parkinson's Disease during the last decade of his life. His body trembled violently and he could not pronounce his words or control his facial muscles.

"To me, this is another sign of God's creativity," he said, adding that the nun worked with children.

He said Church investigators would now start a more formal and detailed probe of the suspected miracle cure.

The process that could lead to sainthood for John Paul began in May when Rome archdiocese published an edict asking Catholics to come forward with evidence "in favor or against" John Paul's reputation of holiness.

One proven miracle is required after John Paul's death for the cause to lead to beatification.

It must be the result of prayers asking the dead pope to intercede with God. Miracles are usually a physical healing that doctors are at a loss to explain.

Another miracle would be necessary between beatification and eventual sainthood.

[mike182d]

Why don't ya just go ahead and make him a saint already?

This is because the Church doesn't "make" Saints, it recognizes them. The definition of a "Saint" is a person in heaven and only God can bestow upon a person such a reward.

A great - or perhaps not so great - example is that of Thomas A. Kempis. He wrote one the most insightful and powerful theological works titled: "Imitation of Christ." After his "death," everyone thought he was worthy of sainthood for being able to produce such a magnificent work and so the Holy See (the Vatican) exhumed his body. Upon opening the casket they found claw marks tearing through the wood on the inside of the casket and the bones of his fingers widdled down to nubs; he had been buried alive. So, despite his entire life of holiness, given the new evidence, it was possible that in the last moments of his life he despaired and so the fate of Thomas A. Kempis' soul could not be determined by the Holy See with any degree of certainty. Sainthood isn't a title one normally throws around.

[jcb8199]

Well put. I love it how Protestants say we are going to hell for praying to someone "other than Christ," and then turn right around and say "Please pray for my mother, she's got cancer." We don't just ask those who are with us now, we ask those who obviously got it right - saints - in addition.

[mike182d]

But of course I have nothing to back that up except, perhaps, what I would like to believe is happening.

I fail to see how it is irrational. God exists outside of time and therefore heaven, a unity with the Holy Trinity, must also exist in this extemporal realm. This should be a given as it is the faith of all Christians that Jesus always existed, even prior to His conception. Take Moses, for example. Moses died and was buried prior to Christ's resurrection and so had not yet entered into heaven. And yet, during the transfiguration, Moses is able to present himself before Jesus in a physical form and talk with him. How can Moses do this if he is both a) dead and b) not resurrected yet?

God transcends time.

You can call such faith "irrational" all you want, but it is clearly evident in Scripture.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

This is because the Church doesn't "make" Saints, it recognizes them. The definition of a "Saint" is a person in heaven and only God can bestow upon a person such a reward.

I guess I can re word it then. Why doesn't the Catholic Church officially recognize him as a saint already?

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Could you also address my contention that its impossible to
credit the particular prayer in the article as being the one that resulted in the healing?

[jcb8199]

Have you ever asked anyone to pray for you, or a sick relative, or anything of that sort? Maybe your brother lost his job, so you asked people with whom you go to church to "pray for my brother"? That is what Catholics do when we "pray to saints." We recognize that NO ONE on this side of Heaven can do it alone, and so ask for all the help we can get--read the Creed:

And so I ask the Blessed Mary, ever virgin,
All the angels and saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me, to the Lord our God.

Doesn't get much simpler than that--we recite that every Sunday with the Confiteor.

[jcb8199]

From CNN...THERE'S a reliable source...

[mike182d]

I guess I can re word it then. Why doesn't the Catholic Church officially recognize him as a saint already?

Because they don't know if he's a Saint already.

[Almondjoy]

That's what a forum is for.. to say your opinion.

Perhaps you would be better suited at cnn or msn so that you don't have to worry about reading opinions.

[Almondjoy]

What book? Do you know what your are talking about?

Hardly.

[Almondjoy]

Perhaps.... but it's still pretty stupid to call someone a saint for what they supposedly do in the afterlife. And the proof is what? None. As usual it's the Catholics creating falsehoods.

[mike182d]

Could you also address my contention that its impossible to credit the particular prayer in the article as being the one that resulted in the healing?

Sure: You can't prove it.

"Evidence" is the true objective state of things while "proof" is mental assent of a subjective entity to the evidence in question. All the corrolations in the world could be presented before a person and it wouldn't "prove" anything. As this deals with an act of God through a person, both said to exist outside of our epistemological realm, it is an act of faith and cannot be anything but an act of faith.

[Almondjoy]

But that's the difference.... Catholics do not understand God. In fact Catholics are about as far from God as mormons are. The fact is that the only person that move and change your life is God through the power of Jesus Christ. If it's God's will it will be done. The only person you should ever be speaking to his him.

[topcat54]

Take Moses, for example. Moses died and was buried prior to Christ's resurrection and so had not yet entered into heaven. And yet, during the transfiguration, Moses is able to present himself before Jesus in a physical form and talk with him. How can Moses do this if he is both a) dead and b) not resurrected yet?

We know that this was true in the case of Moses because we have God's infallible revelation on the subject. The irrational part comes about when folks attempt to extrapolate the extraordinary, very limited events in Scripture to some general rule. IOW, just because Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration specifically to testify to His messiahship does not mean that we can automatically transpose that special case to all the other saints that have gone before.

It's interesting that we do not find the apostles and early church praying to Moses or Elijah, even though they are known to be with Christ. In fact when was the last time you prayed to Moses or Elijah? Where did they pray to angels? Where did Jesus encourage His disciples to pray to angels or men? Your case would be air-tight if only you had infallible truth on your side.

There are many facts that point to the arbitrary nature of the Roman Catholic practice on praying to saints. At least be consistent and say these practices are purely based on the tradition and magisterium of your church, and don't try to twist the Scripture to make your case.

[Almondjoy]

It doesn't bother me.. it doesn't matter to me either. But how can you have a forum and discussion without the discussion?

[Almondjoy]

I pray for God's will to be done. I pray to think of others. I pray for my own spirit to realize there is more to life than myself. I do understand that God's will will be done regardless. It doesn't matter how much everyone prays about a particular thing.

Think about Schivao for instance.. many prayed for her to live... she did not. The purpose of prayer isn't to get what you want.. it's to put yourself at God's mercy.

[Rutles4Ever]

That's okay, Almondjoy. You just keep on reading the menu and I'll eat the meal.

[mike182d]

Perhaps.... but it's still pretty stupid to call someone a saint for what they supposedly do in the afterlife. And the proof is what? As usual it's the Catholics creating falsehoods.

Apparently you are missing several points of Scripture in your attempt to insult Catholicism. As I mentioned in an earlier post, Moses died and was buried. Yet, at the transfiguration, Jesus is standing there talking with Moses in physical form. Our God is a God of the living, not the dead, and those that go before us, continue living in union with Christ.......maybe. That's the keyword: maybe. We are not the judge of human souls, God is, and so it is beyond the ability of any man to defintively claim that a person is in heaven, or hell for that matter, unless God chooses to reveal that unto men. These revelations are the "proof" used to establish sainthood. It is the Catholic Church recognizing that a person was able to make it to heaven by what they did in this life and that we know they are in heaven.

Contrast this to the cliche "well, they're in a better place now, I'm sure of it" heard at every single funeral by people with no particular devotion to Christ sometimes and you tell me which is a more sure method of determining who has made it to heaven.

[Rutles4Ever]

Almondjoy can declare you saved or condemned to hell, but the Church is not allowed to declare the holiness of its faithful. Brilliant example of the Pharisiacal folly.