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Extra ecclesiam - Outside the Church there is no salvation.
Catholic Exchange ^ | Kevin Knight

Posted on 01/29/2006 5:25:55 AM PST by NYer

It's a stark sentence. Some Catholics even love its shock value, waving the doctrine like a flag in the face of their enemies. Other Catholics flatly refuse to believe it, and claim that this teaching was repudiated by the Second Vatican Council. Both groups are wrong.

Despite what some may think, this dogma is infallible, and all Catholics are required to believe it. This was repeated clearly at Vatican II, which said: "Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation."

At the same time, this dogma was never meant to be a sectarian battle cry, as if only Catholics may go to heaven.

So what is the correct interpretation of this sentence? What does the Catholic Church mean when she proclaims that Outside the Church there is no salvation?

OUTSIDE THE EARTH THERE IS NO LIFE
 
Saying that the Church is necessary for salvation is like saying that the earth is necessary for human life. Outside the Church there is no salvation, and outside the earth there is no life.

It's true, of course. The earth is our God-given home. If you leave here, you will die.

But if this is so, how do you explain the 445 astronauts who have flown into space and returned safely? If "outside the earth there is no life", how did Neil Armstrong ever walk on the moon?

The answer, of course, is simple: They didn't leave the earth; they just brought it with them. While they slept and walked on the moon, they were eating earth's food and breathing earth's air. Everything they had came from back home.
 
So when we say "outside the earth there is no life," we are saying that all of the means for survival are found on this planet. And when we say "outside the Church there is no salvation," we mean that all of the means of salvation -- doctrines, sacraments, and so on -- are found here, uncorrupted by error.
 
Some of these means can exist outside the visible bounds of the Church. For example, Protestants have most of the Bible, along with two of the seven sacraments. Nevertheless, these things are like the food and water on the Space Shuttle: they're life-giving, but they came from a place where they're far richer, more abundant and complete.

WHAT IT ALL MEANS

We may draw several conclusions from this.

First, if a person even suspects that the Church is necessary for salvation, but refuses to act on it before he dies, he will go to hell. As Vatican II stated, "They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."

Second, if a person fails to enter or stay in the Church through no fault of his own, he may still be saved. Pope Pius IX said: "By Faith it is to be firmly held that outside the Apostolic Roman Church none can achieve salvation. This is the only ark of salvation. He who does not enter into it will perish in the flood. Nevertheless equally certainly it is to be held that those who suffer from invincible ignorance of the true religion are not for this reason guilty in the eyes of the Lord."

Finally, it's not enough simply to call yourself Catholic. There is nothing magic about registering at a parish. To go to heaven, you have to take advantages of the means offered by the Church. This includes praying often, giving alms to the poor, spreading the Gospel, going to Confession and believing in all of her teachings -- even the hard ones.
 
Pope John Paul II summed it up best: "People are saved through the Church, they are saved in the Church, but they always are saved by the grace of Christ. . . . This is the authentic meaning of the well-known statement Outside the Church there is no salvation."


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS: salvation
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To: wallcrawlr

[Whats your point for posting it? ]

Discussion of the different doctrines taught in various denomination is a good thing, don't you know. Scripture only is where I stand and this is a good forum.
You think we should all get along, maybe? Or are you wise in your own conceits?


241 posted on 01/30/2006 6:56:53 AM PST by kindred ( Ro.5:6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.)
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To: muawiyah

[Some people are bothered by what they take to be "competing" theologies. Some of us seek to find common ground.]

Common ground is the scriptures only, no man can add or take away from lest they die in their sins. Churches that say our denomination or our doctrine only which contradicts the gospel truth are in danger of hell fire. I once read that only 9% if Catholics believe that a sinner can be saved by grace through faith only; if so only those of the 9 % who believe how than Jesus Christ died for our sins and rose again the third day for our salvation will be saved. And so it it in various denominations of the fractured chuch, give me the scriture only approach since I know I could not fulfill the commandments of God.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


242 posted on 01/30/2006 7:05:27 AM PST by kindred ( Ro.5:6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.)
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To: kindred

see post #49


243 posted on 01/30/2006 7:08:26 AM PST by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: ovrtaxt

[I would agree, however, that scripture is not always self evident.]

It is indeed. Scripture is infalliable and inerrant and those who deny this truth are condemned since they are saying God is a liar. What, I should believe a priest or a pastor or a rabbi that contradicts scripture.
Secret, love does not unite the Church, doctrine does. So many are so in love with their denomination or local church doctrine they over look Scripture doctrine that God authored through holy men of old inspired by the Holy Spirit.
If one says God lied in the scriputes concerning the testimony of the propitiation of Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour, why should one feel he will enter the kingdom of heaven?


244 posted on 01/30/2006 7:14:02 AM PST by kindred ( Ro.5:6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.)
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To: Conservative til I die

[I've heard this argument several times from Protestants before, and it just doesn't set right with me. Primarily, this is because the differences are *not* trivial. The nature of the Eucharist (Real Presence vs. Sorta real presence vs. just a symbol), how is Salvation received (works/faith vs. faith alone vs. works alone), and whether man has free will are just three non-trivial disputes between the Christian faiths.]

Not trivial at all. Did you know that drinking blood is forbidden of God? You would be rejected of God because you drink blood, cannibalism is a result of mystical misintrepretation of scripture , the body and blood of Jesus was given at the cross and went into the ground and was not drank at all. Satanists drink blood, sacrifice humans and animals, and do these evil things..


245 posted on 01/30/2006 7:19:03 AM PST by kindred ( Ro.5:6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.)
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To: jecIIny

[I am tired of these constant bickering sessions between Catholics and Protestants. Catholics believe that one man can infallibly interpret scripture. So do Evangelical Protestants. The Catholics call that person the Pope. Evangelicals call that person themself. Protestants who hate the Pope don't seem to grasp that all they have done is replace the Pope with millions of little popes less the miter.]

Read the book of Hebrews carefully so you may understand the pristhood of the believer in the body of Christ, saved sinners who are forgiven by believing on the death, burial and ressurection of the one intercessor between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.
Every saved born again believer is a priest and pope if you will before God and can enter in to the throne room of God . So many popes are and were not saved.


246 posted on 01/30/2006 7:23:24 AM PST by kindred ( Ro.5:6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.)
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To: Conservative til I die
Not sure what the aspersion was here. Please enumerate.

We's saved, y'all is screwed.""

247 posted on 01/30/2006 8:01:43 AM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido

Wow, that church is spectacular.

http://www.franciscan-alumni.org/schools/duns.html


248 posted on 01/30/2006 8:08:03 AM PST by Nihil Obstat
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To: kindred; jecIIny
Every saved born again believer is a priest and pope if you will before God and can enter in to the throne room of God .

You are referring to the "common priesthood of all the faithful". The New Testament authorizes leaders of the Church to be pastors, deacons, maybe even bishops. (Romans 15:16

249 posted on 01/30/2006 8:39:21 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: Nihil Obstat; NYer

Yep, I love it, and I moonlight there at night as security. It's now a nondenominational evangelical church (www.woficc.com) with a K-8 school and a free 24 hour prayer line. They retained ALL of the exterior architecture including all the inscriptions and statuary, and most of the interior architecture and engravings. The Franciscans did a great job designing it, and it's a wonderful place for quiet meditation at night.


250 posted on 01/30/2006 9:16:20 AM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: ovrtaxt; NYer
Very interesting! Praying for the reconversion of the Holy Land and the Middle East is often part of my bedtime routine.

Another thing to think about, many Chinese missionaries are working in muslim areas. Because they are viewed as "non Western" they can go places a boy from the plains of Nebraska couldn't!
251 posted on 01/30/2006 10:10:47 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: xzins; Kolokotronis; jude24
In the early Lutheran churches, Apostolic Succession was kept. If you read the Augsburg confession, it talks about ordination in a sacramental way (same with confession, both corporate and private). The problem is that after the 30 years war, most of the "German" states were in such a state that any true list couldn't be made. Some of the Scandinavian synods still do have those lists, which is why the ROC had limited communion with a few of them (which has ended now do to women's oridiation).
252 posted on 01/30/2006 10:21:44 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: kindred
cannibalism is a result of mystical misintrepretation of scripture

Funny, "cannibalism" was exactly the complaint levied against the early Christians -- ca. AD 150 -- by the Roman pagans. Some things never change.

253 posted on 01/30/2006 11:14:27 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: kindred

Always elf evident, huh? Okay. Explain John chapter 21. I'm not claiming that I don't know what the words say. I'm telling you that I haven't plumbed the depths of this portion of scripture yet. Sure, I've gotten lots of good stuff out of John 21 to date, but I know there's more in there that I haven't yet perceived.

That's what I mean. We need the illumination of the Spirit to understand the Word. Therefore, scripture is not self evident. If it is, you are only seeing the surface of a deep ocean.


254 posted on 01/30/2006 11:33:34 AM PST by ovrtaxt ("I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."- Reagan)
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To: redgolum

Your prayers are certainly responsible for some of these miraculous conversions.


255 posted on 01/30/2006 11:35:08 AM PST by ovrtaxt ("I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."- Reagan)
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To: muawiyah

A general confession is not the same as the sacrament of penance (confession) as it is found in the Catholic Church.
I do not know of any Protestant Church that holds a person's sins are absolved if he confesses to a priest.
Perhaps if I knew how you define sacrament, we would not be at cross purposes. In Catholic theology a Sacrament is an outward and visible sign of God's grace. This grace is truly imparted by the very act itself. It is also Christ himself acting through the priest ( alter Christi) who bestows this grace upon the receiver. Is that your understanding?


256 posted on 01/30/2006 12:03:58 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: lastchance

You are being entirely too legalistic.


257 posted on 01/30/2006 4:11:11 PM PST by muawiyah (-)
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To: muawiyah

Sorry about that. But if we both do not understand a word to mean the same thing we will just get frustrated. And it is unfortunate that such dry legal terms are used in theology to explain such a wonderful and joyous mystery such as being absolved in Confession.


258 posted on 01/30/2006 4:51:51 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: .30Carbine; Alamo-Girl; marron; hosepipe; xzins; DaveLoneRanger; NYer; Salvation; TXnMA
I was actually sorry that he closed with Mary, except for this discernment (grant it to the reader, Lord): Mary as the personification or embodiment of the willing vessel. Any one of us could be that Mary; any such vessel will receive honor. Amen.

But Mary is more than that, my dear sister in Christ. And none of us could ever be what she is: She is absolutely unique in human and spiritual history. Let me -- an "unchurched" Catholic (in the institutional sense) -- try to explain what the Spirit of God has enabled me to see regarding Mary.

For openers, I realize that the Reformed Church generally tends to deemphasize Mary the Mother of God, almost at times to the point of contempt. In Catholic theology, she is held in the utmost esteem -- not as a "goddess" to be worshipped, but simply as the Mother of God, and thus, the Mother of the Christian Church. And there are at least three reasons for this.

(1), the fact that the incarnated Jesus Christ is of the "seed of Abraham," and of the royal House of David, comes only through Mary -- for that is her own heritage. In short, Mary is the very nexus between the Old and New Testaments. Christ came to fulfill the Law of Israel. Mary made this concretely possible.

(2), Catholics do not worship Mary as a goddess, but as their spiritual Mother. She is recognized as a mortal human being, though a profoundly sanctified and holy one, divinely appointed and prepared for her role in divine history from the very beginning of the world. Neither do Catholics speak of the holy mother as "Saint Mary." She is superior to all the saints of the Church, and I imagine to the order of the angels, and venerated as such.

(3), She it was who could say to God, "I am the handmaid of the Lord. Be it done unto me according to Thy Word." She is the model of perfected human purity: She emptied herself of all mortal aims and purposes other than to magnify the Lord, and to do His will. In this, she was "perfect" in execution throughout her life: there was never any iota of personal selfishness in the conduct of her life: She lived for her Son, and stood at the Foot of the Cross when the rest of the world seemingly abandoned him to His ignominious and shameful death. She never left His side.

And Jesus Himself, in the throes of an excruciating mortal death on the Cross, proclaimed to the beloved Apostle John, "Behold, thy mother." By this he did not mean, "Hey, John -- take care of Mom for me, 'cause I'm out of here" (so to speak); Christ Himself here proclaimed his intent that Mary be the Mother of the Church -- spiritual and institutional -- that our Lord founded in this world.

In these remarks, I do not at all mean to rebuke or "correct" you in any way; just to give you a theme for meditation, if you desire to take it up.

May God ever bless you, dear sister in Christ.

259 posted on 01/30/2006 5:10:37 PM PST by betty boop (Often the deepest cause of suffering is the very absence of God. -- Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer

Please show me the 7 Sacraments Chapter and verse Bible please. Don't quote me something from some book, with what some pope said.

I'll back out now and wait for the verses from Gods word.


260 posted on 01/30/2006 5:12:47 PM PST by Dewy (1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;)
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