Extra ecclesiam - Outside the Church there is no salvation.

Catholic Exchange ^ | Kevin Knight

[NYer]

It's a stark sentence. Some Catholics even love its shock value, waving the doctrine like a flag in the face of their enemies. Other Catholics flatly refuse to believe it, and claim that this teaching was repudiated by the Second Vatican Council. Both groups are wrong.

Despite what some may think, this dogma is infallible, and all Catholics are required to believe it. This was repeated clearly at Vatican II, which said: "Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation."

At the same time, this dogma was never meant to be a sectarian battle cry, as if only Catholics may go to heaven.

So what is the correct interpretation of this sentence? What does the Catholic Church mean when she proclaims that Outside the Church there is no salvation?

OUTSIDE THE EARTH THERE IS NO LIFE
 
Saying that the Church is necessary for salvation is like saying that the earth is necessary for human life. Outside the Church there is no salvation, and outside the earth there is no life.

It's true, of course. The earth is our God-given home. If you leave here, you will die.

But if this is so, how do you explain the 445 astronauts who have flown into space and returned safely? If "outside the earth there is no life", how did Neil Armstrong ever walk on the moon?

The answer, of course, is simple: They didn't leave the earth; they just brought it with them. While they slept and walked on the moon, they were eating earth's food and breathing earth's air. Everything they had came from back home.
 
So when we say "outside the earth there is no life," we are saying that all of the means for survival are found on this planet. And when we say "outside the Church there is no salvation," we mean that all of the means of salvation -- doctrines, sacraments, and so on -- are found here, uncorrupted by error.
 
Some of these means can exist outside the visible bounds of the Church. For example, Protestants have most of the Bible, along with two of the seven sacraments. Nevertheless, these things are like the food and water on the Space Shuttle: they're life-giving, but they came from a place where they're far richer, more abundant and complete.

WHAT IT ALL MEANS

We may draw several conclusions from this.

First, if a person even suspects that the Church is necessary for salvation, but refuses to act on it before he dies, he will go to hell. As Vatican II stated, "They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."

Second, if a person fails to enter or stay in the Church through no fault of his own, he may still be saved. Pope Pius IX said: "By Faith it is to be firmly held that outside the Apostolic Roman Church none can achieve salvation. This is the only ark of salvation. He who does not enter into it will perish in the flood. Nevertheless equally certainly it is to be held that those who suffer from invincible ignorance of the true religion are not for this reason guilty in the eyes of the Lord."

Finally, it's not enough simply to call yourself Catholic. There is nothing magic about registering at a parish. To go to heaven, you have to take advantages of the means offered by the Church. This includes praying often, giving alms to the poor, spreading the Gospel, going to Confession and believing in all of her teachings -- even the hard ones.
 
Pope John Paul II summed it up best: "People are saved through the Church, they are saved in the Church, but they always are saved by the grace of Christ. . . . This is the authentic meaning of the well-known statement Outside the Church there is no salvation."

[ovrtaxt]

not realizing that others might have a differing interpretation which by definition is allowable in Sola Scriptura, as all men are able to interpret the Bible through the Holy Spirit.

2 things:

First, there is no private interpretation according to 2 Peter 1:20. So we know that God meant something very specific by His Word.

Second, that within that correct universal interpretation, there are implications for my life that may not be as important to you. The scripture means the same thing in it's raw definition, but application to practical reality may vary.

So if we have no basis for a personal understanding of scripture, what do you do with this verse:

1 John 2:27

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

[Conservative til I die]

First, there is no private interpretation according to 2 Peter 1:20. So we know that God meant something very specific by His Word.

OK, then if there are no private interepretations allowed, then what *is* allowed? You may say that God meant something very specific by His Word, and I would 100% agree. That's not the issue. It's the interpretation by us that is the issue. Scriptre is not self-interpreting or always self-evident.

Second, that within that correct universal interpretation, there are implications for my life that may not be as important to you. The scripture means the same thing in it's raw definition, but application to practical reality may vary.

I've heard this argument several times from Protestants before, and it just doesn't set right with me. Primarily, this is because the differences are *not* trivial. The nature of the Eucharist (Real Presence vs. Sorta real presence vs. just a symbol), how is Salvation received (works/faith vs. faith alone vs. works alone), and whether man has free will are just three non-trivial disputes between the Christian faiths.

I won't get into the more fringe sects and their beliefs, but those that believe in Saturday worship, a modalist God, Jesus is really the Archangel Michael and a created, lesser "god", soul sleep, and soul annihilation, they all seem to believe that the Holy Spirit is guiding them to these beliefs through the Scriptures.

Obviously, we know they're wrong, because Scripture clearly contradicts these beleifs, but there are also more subtle errors made by people interpreting the Scriptures.

[jo kus]

Not true.. I personally know of several people that never read the bible or had any dealings with those that did. yet, met the the most high God out in the bush.. Subsequently finding their way to other Christian's for fellowship, eventially.. And fit right in

Not sure how that has anything to do with "knowing" the Bible is from God without a priori knowledge of that - in other words, taking it for granted that it is based on someone else's word. We all come to believe that the Bible is God's Word based on what someone else told us - and we believed them.

The Body of Christ is NOT a club

It consists of people who belong to Christ. What is your definition of a "club"?

Regards

[jo kus]

Through our Lord may we all come to greater unity and insight.

Yes, we can only pray that people come to the knowledge that we are much closer than some people give us credit.

Regards

[jo kus]

Good morning Diego,

Hope all is well with you.

God Bless

[ovrtaxt]

I would assert that scripture IS self-interpreting. For example, I'm sure you've seen the folks who would rather interpret the Revelation by the daily news, than by the rest of the Bible. Consequently, we have all sorts of goofy opinions about the 'end times', but real hardcore Bible study is too much work for some. The truth is, there isn't a single symbol in Revelation that's new. Everything is previously revealed in other books, particularly Genesis and Ezekiel.

I would agree, however, that scripture is not always self evident. That's where prayer and a relationship with God come into play. The mysteries of God aren't just going to be picked up like common pebbles on the ground. They are jewels that He awards the diligent.

"Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."

Personally, I just don't worry about these other people and just read it plainly for myself. Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice, and the voice of a stranger they will not follow. John 3:4-5 He also promises to confirm His Word with signs following, and He does.

[jo kus]

It's not a theory at all, jo kus! I've known Christ personally for 46 years now.

Well, then you are much more experienced in being in Christ than I have! Please note I am not questioning your relationship with the Lord. I am only questioning the idea that one can "know" the Bible is the Word of God directly WITHOUT taking the word of another human being. The Spirit doesn't lead us to determine the cannon of Scriptures, nor are the individual books self-attesting. For example, tell me how the Spirit leads you to know that Philemon, by itself, is inspired by God?

We Christians have all had at least one direct Spiritual revelation: that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Another circular argument...how do you know the book called "Matthew" is inspired by God? Please note that the Jews don't consider it as inspired by God. We base our entire Christian paradigm on what others have told us, the witness of the Apostles and their successors.

But as the Scriptures say, we must try the spirits (both spiritual beings and prophets) - and the test of the spirits is to ask who they say Jesus Christ is (I John 4).

Besides again being a circular argument of quoting Scripture to "prove" Scripture, I agree that we SHOULD test whether something that we are told "comes from God". We look at the witness and determine for ourselves if God is active in that person.

Using Cayce as the counter-example, after he had contacted a false spirit he abandoned his earlier confession of Christ for what that spirit said, i.e. that Christ was an "older brother".

I'd say this person is listening to the wrong spirits... That is the problem with such things. This is way too subjective to base a rational set of beliefs upon. And God is not a Spirit of Lies. God is not against rationale thought. I find it difficult to believe people's so-called "moving in the Spirit". I prefer to build my faith on something a bit more stronger.

Regards

[xzins]

AG, it is so refreshing to hear your solid testimony. I smile each time I hear you say that you follow no human doctrine, but are concerned with what the Lord Himself has revealed in His scripture. You highlight a great truth - "Let each one work out his/her own salvation with fear and trembling."

I rejoice at your reminder that we are to try the spirits, and I fully agree that the test of the spirits is whether they be of God. That test is how the spirit deals with Christ. "Has the 2nd person of the Trinity come in the actual, physical flesh in the person of Jesus of Nazareth? Do you recognize Jesus to be God's Messiah?"

A negative to any aspect of either question would quickly indicate that spirit not to be one sent from God.

Nonetheless, we should listen to Jo Kus' caution because it is so hard for younger Christians to distinguish between spiritual and emotional. "Because I feel it." is not on the same level as "Because I have tested the spirits to see if they be of God."

In that regard, we must rely most heavily upon scripture. At the same time, I would heartily agree with JoKus, Kolokotronis, and BB at this point that we can receive great assistance via the collective stored wisdom and tradition of the Church. After all, Jesus said, "...I will build my Church....the gates of hell shall not prevail against it....whatever you loose on earth...whatever you bind on earth...also in heaven."

We must rebuild any tabernacle that has fallen.

Many believe in a church-less Christianity, some because of personal injury they have received (or perceived) in a particular group, and others because of faulty teaching by those who advance their own opinions without regard for the great love Christ had for the Church, "...and gave His life for her, to present her spotless..."

There is no church-less Christianity with validity. The Lord WANTS us to work through the difficulties of interpersonal conflicts, so we can demonstrate that through His power unity can be achieved. And when the world sees our love for one another, then they will believe that God truly did send Jesus Christ.

My highest regards to all of you; all brothers and sisters in Christ

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Nicely said!

[xzins]

Thank you.

[TradicalRC]

Now where would you point to in scripture where it says that a specific authority must be granted in order for one to come up with an interpretation of scripture?

18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
-Matthew 16:18-19 now what you have to do is explain how these verses answer the question asked... And if you could, I would be interestd if you could identify who the 'rock' is in verse 18 and what are the 'keys' in verse 19.

Christ adresses Peter and puns on his name, calling Peter the rock on which Christ will build His Church. The keys are the recognition of Christ and His authority, including His authority to grant perpetual authority to His apostles for the duration of time. Christ granted the authority to loose and bind in matters of faith and morals. One of the first situations that came up was circumcision of the gentiles. The early church recognized apostolic authority and apostolic succession. Christ warned that the devil would plant tares among the wheat and elsewhere He laments that the Jews are so divided. If one truly wants to follow Christ one would recognize His desire for One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Christ is not anti-Church no matter what any self-professed Christian wants to claim.

[muawiyah]

Never been to a Protestant service where they didn't have "confession".

That's why you are wrong.

The situation is very simple ~ Protestants may, sometimes, use different words and different forms ~ still the same sacraments.

[muawiyah]

Please try to get beyond the rhetoric. Fact is Protestants and Catholics use the same scriptures as authority for the same things. Ergo, they are the same even if the words and actions appear to be different.

[.30Carbine]

I appreciated your posting of that link and read through it yesterday while lurking. I found that he began the treatise in the vein of C.S. Lewis--(The Four Loves)--and went much further. I was actually sorry that he closed with Mary, except for this discernment (grant it to the reader, Lord): Mary as the personification or embodiment of the willing vessel. Any one of us could be that Mary; any such vessel will receive honor. Amen.

Wisdom, not Mary, is the Mother of all the Living, and she is proved by her offspring.

[muawiyah]

You really have to read more about the early part of the Reformation and then the Religious Wars in France.

There was a really serious element of anti-clericalism.

Pay attention to the Camisards, too.

[muawiyah]

I've never heard a Catholic with that complaint. Never heard an ex-Catholic with it either.

I think someone was pulling your leg.

[muawiyah]

Some people are bothered by what they take to be "competing" theologies. Some of us seek to find common ground.

[.30Carbine]

I do not embrace the doctrines and traditions of mortal men.

Amen. The Stone the builders rejected has become the Capstone--Grace to it!--a Rock not cut by human hands.

[kindred]

It depends on what one considers the Church.
Catholics and many Protestant denominations are taught that all doctrine is only of the their own particular denomination and priest or pastor and is therefore biblically incorrect.
The bible teaches the opposite, the church consist of all people who believe how that Jesus Christ , the son of God, died for our sins, was buried and rose the third day by the power of God so that all who believe this are saved from their sin.
So many Christians will not see the kingdom of God because they changed the gospel of grace into a lie of Satan and add personal works to the faith of Jesus Christ as necessary for salvation, which is a lie and will and has destroyed many souls through the centuries. Christ will return to the earth after the seven year tribulation to rule and reign in the kingdom age for 1000 years and then comes the end of the earth as we know it, though God will create a new heavens and a new earth for all the saved by grace through faith in the finished work of the cross saints.
I feel sorry for those who believe their good works will save them. It is an affront to God and his Christ. Ro.4: 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Ep.2: 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: It is finished, saith the Lord Jesus Christ.

[kindred]

Good thing we Christians have the Bible to give us the truth which promises salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, not "The Church".

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Amen. You read and study the scriptures. The reason so many people will be weeping and gnashing their teeth is because of unbelief the work of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Children can understand the gospel of grace Paul the apostle to the gentiles preached in 1Co.1: 1-4, but it seems pigheaded adults are much to wise in their own eyes to accept the free work of salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ at the cross.