[P-Marlowe]

This is Pelagianism - not the phony Pelagian spectre that some paranoid Calvinists see lurking behind every Wesleyan, Pentacostal, or Catholic, but the real deal.

I hope you misread what I said in ignorance and not in dishonesty. I did not say that God has chosen you because you are a winner, I said that you are a winner because God chose you.

You did exactly with my statement what the author did with Smith's.

[jude24]

I misread nothing, let alone distorted anything. You said, "The fact is that if you come to Christ you are a winner. Do you deny that? You have been chosen by Christ." There is only one way to construe that quote - that you are a winner because you come to Christ, and that you have been chosen because you are a winner.

I misconstrued nothing. I have no antipathy towards Cassianianism or Wesleyanism, but this goes well-beyond either moderate non-Calvinist viewpoint. This attributes election to someone's "winner-ness," and is the sine qua non of Pelagianism.

(You will note that I have carefully never called you - nor Chuck Smith a Pelagian. I don't believe either you nor he are for a minute. But your statement is undeniably Pelagian - the real thing.)

[ksen]

You did exactly with my statement what the author did with Smith's

You better read Pastor Smith's quote again. Here is the relevant section:

Would you pick out a bunch of losers? You would be stupid if you did. Of course you wouldn't you would pick the winners, because you know in advance who is going to win the race.

The people aren't winners because chose them, God chose them because they are winners. Otherwise it would be impossible for God to choose a loser.