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To: Gamecock; blue-duncan; xzins
The problem is the Saints, and only the Saints, are commanded to worship God. Feeding goats gets in the way of true worship.

Even if bringing in the goats gets in the way of "true worship", it is not an option. We are commanded to compel them to come in. In Calvin's day it was easy to get them to come in. They were threatened with flogging if they didn't come in. So there was no need to entertain the goats, because if they fell asleep during the sermon they would be flogged. They pretended to be sheep to keep from being beaten.

Nowadays we are still under a commandment to go out into the streets and compel them (goats, sheep, pigs) to come in. But we can't flog them if they refuse. We are also called to be fishers of men and fishermen use lures. Thus if we are going to compel them to come in we have to give them some reason to enter besides threat of violence.

Some have chosen to lure believers with the threat of a friendly smile, good music, and a decent cup of joe. If it compels some to come in, then it is in line with the commandment. If they are sheep, they will stay with the flock. If they are goats... well we may not ever know. God will separate the sheep from the goats. Or don't you believe that?

345 posted on 01/11/2006 12:54:48 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe
We are commanded to compel them to come in.

Church is the goal of evangelism, not the place for it.

348 posted on 01/11/2006 1:10:25 PM PST by Gamecock (..ours is a trivial age, and the church has been deeply affected by this pervasive triviality. JMB)
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To: P-Marlowe
We are commanded to compel them to come in.

What is your scriptural basis for that?

365 posted on 01/11/2006 2:50:00 PM PST by lupie
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To: P-Marlowe
We are commanded to compel them to come in.

NO we are commanded to compel them to come in to the FOLD of the true Shepherd (by abandoning their sins and realizing their state before God, and turning to him alone!), not into the church building on Sunday morning. Once they are in the fold, they *then* come into a church that is truly honoring the Lord, ideally.

If you equate the church organization with the Kingdom of God, well... you're ripe for the picking for the wolves waiting to exploit you. You *know* churchES can go apostate, but the true church never will. You have got to be able to somehow discern between church visible and church invisible. I cannot explain to you how to do it, but the more you delve into and strive to understand the Word (I wouldn't bother with some of the newer translations, especially the NRSV, the newer NIV versions coming out, etc) by the help of the Holy Spirit, you will know.

494 posted on 01/12/2006 10:52:43 AM PST by Terriergal (Cursed be any love or unity for whose sake the Word of God must be put at stake. -- Martin Luther)
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To: P-Marlowe
If they are sheep, they will stay with the flock. If they are goats... well we may not ever know.

Oh man... what a misleading thing to say. You cannot make that statement so broadly. The gathered church does not equal the true church. The goats and wolves will not always go away. Why should they, especially if the food they crave is there? Wolves crave sheep, goats crave social clubs and status. The thing is, Goats can tolerate copper in their diet. Sheep can't. Too much copper will kill them.

How about this:

Matthew 7:6 "Don't give that which is holy to the dogs, neither throw your pearls before the pigs, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

I realize he says 'don't judge lest you be judged' at the beginning of this chapter... and then goes on to tell you how to properly judge... and that you should discern between dogs and swine and the believers. So it is not properly interpreted that we should never judge. The Bible is chock full of judgement and commanding us to make judgements. It's called discernment. He then goes on:

v 13ff: "Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it. How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.

*********"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. *********

By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?

The Fruit of the purpose driven movement (which is only one flavor of the larger Church Growth movement error) is the starving of the sheep, and putting them out of the camp.

in v 21ff: Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day,'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' hen I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'

Paul "I know that, after I depart, fierce wolves will come among you, not sparing the flock: and that men will arise from among you yourselves, and will speak depraved things, in order to lead disciples away after them" (Acts 20:29-30).

The Spirit speaks explicitly that in the future some will fall away from the faith, embracing deceitful spirits and demonic doctrines, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared (1 Timothy 4:1-2).

Correct, reprove, and encourage with all patience and teaching, for the time will be when they will not tolerate wholesome teaching. According to their own desires, they will accumulate for themselves teachers, to have their ears tickled. They will turn away their ears from the truth, and will go astray after myths (2 Timothy 4:204).

497 posted on 01/12/2006 11:08:52 AM PST by Terriergal (Cursed be any love or unity for whose sake the Word of God must be put at stake. -- Martin Luther)
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To: sauropod

rl


652 posted on 01/15/2006 2:51:23 PM PST by sauropod ("Here Lies Joe Biden, Buried Under His Own Words.")
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