The purpose-driven pastor (Rick Warren calls Christian fundamentalists an enemy)

Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | Jan. 08, 2006 | Paul Nussbaum

[TommyDale]

Thanks for posting that link. I started to post a link myself!

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

Happy to be on the same thought wave. : -)

[Uri’el-2012]

Thanks

Rick always seemed to be into marketing and not the Holy Spirit.

b'shem Y'shua

[subterfuge]

Misleading title and it sounds like you fell for it.

Should read: Philly Newrag Hates EVERYTHING Christian

[TommyDale]

I don't think many of us recognize the Warren movement as Christian. More like "Warren's own idea of what Christian should be, and it is totally off base".

[subterfuge]

" don't think many of us recognize the Warren movement as Christian. More like "Warren's own idea of what Christian should be, and it is totally off base".

Interesting. Why do you suppose so many churches are following him then? Mine did and I really didn't see the harm in it. Exactly what is the crux of his misgivings related to Christianinty? I've read a lot of conjecture here but no one is making a really good point. Just a lot of nit-picking at various interpretations of what he said, or meant.

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

There is a temptation to buy into anything that attaches the word "Christian" to its identity but we must be very careful.

Either Rick Warren is not grounded well in Scripture or he purposely twists it for his own benefit. Regardless of which, he certainly should not be "America's Pastor".

We must practice discernment. Remember that Satan will masquerade as an angel of light.

[P-Marlowe]

I usually come to the defense of Rick Warren as I believe he has been in many cases unjustly maligned. But I am very distressed by his statements. As one who numbers himself as both an evangelical and a fundamentalist, I would have to take exception to Mr. Warren's reference to Christian Fundamentalists as "enemies." If he believes that a Fundamentalist like Jerry Falwell is his "enemy" rather than his brother in Christ, then I would dare to say that Warren himself has crossed the line from evangelical Christian to lukewarm religious secularist.

Some of his statements (if they are true) are really beyond the pale for a "non-denominational" Christian minister. For instance: "But, powerful as churches can be in working for the powerless, they can't succeed without governments and nongovernmental organizations." As if God's will is dependent upon Government intervention.

Often people who become popular or famous surround themselves with yes men who nod with approval at every idiotic thing the famous person says or does. I suspect that Warren may have fallen into that trap.

At any rate I'm not going to defend him on this.

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

Reminds me of the Rabbi's question of Jesus, when they asked, "Which of God's commands is the greatest?"

Men wander into trouble by reading scripture too quickly or superficially or out of context with the rest of the Bible.

In Matthew 27:5, the scripture says of Judas, “and he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood. And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter’s field, to bury strangers in. Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.”

Acts 1:18-19 records the same event in a different manner, “Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem, insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.”

Which of these is correct? Did Judas Iscariot hang himself, or did he die as a result of a fall? Through careful consideration of Scripture (Isaiah 28:10), one might see that both accounts could be correct.

It's reasonable to read the account in Acts as an abbreviated review, attributing the action of buying the field to Judas because he was the one paid for treason. The priests were his agents, in a sense. So "Judas" bought the land with his blood money - his agents handled the transaction for him.

Judas hanged himself. And he fell headlong into the Field of Blood, gushing his guts out. These do not contradict one another if you keep in mind great earthquake that took place at the time Christ Jesus sealed the New Covenant (Matthew 27:51-52). Judas is hanging from a tree when this earthquake shakes the countryside. His tree collapses, perhaps his rope breaks, and he falls - along with the tree? - and bursts open, having been hanging out in the hot sun for a while (he hanged himself "early in the morning" and Christ died around 3 PM).

Man cannot understand all that God has spoken but, by His Spirit, we can understand a great deal of it if we approach the Word of God with humility.

[P-Marlowe]

I've certainly been called "fundamentalist", "extremist", "Literalist", and "puritan", etc.

Anyone who has not been called any or all of those things needs to reassess their walk with Christ.

[wallcrawlr]

Just a lot of nit-picking at various interpretations of what he said, or meant.

Clarity is important. One thing that helps is that he has lots of printed materials available to document what he says and preaches. In a review of this material you can see unbiblical or scripturally skewed preaching.
Certainly not all of it but enough that causes myself to question his overall method of preaching and what his intentions are as a Pastor.

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

Why do you suppose so many churches are following him then?

May I invite you to read THIS carefully and then answer your own question.

No hostility is intended. I am merely trying to open your eyes to another perspective.

[My2Cents]

The Pop, the Fizz, the Purpose-Driven Biz

[My2Cents]

It saddens me to see how many people have fallen in line behind him.

Coming out of a church that pretty much swallowed Warren's programs whole, I have to say that some (won't paint all with the brush) churches that buy his seeker-sensitive approach have never learned what it means to follow and rely upon the empowerment of the Holy Spirit; they're mainly looking for a good program, implemented through proven principles of organizational management.

[My2Cents]

I'd be interested in that article about home churches. Do you have a link?

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

never learned what it means to follow and rely upon the empowerment of the Holy Spirit

Absolutely correct !!!! However I find myself still surprised to see those who should know better, sucked in. They defend it by believing "they" are saving souls.

[Alex Murphy]

Anyone who has not been called any or all of those things needs to reassess their walk with Christ.

Howabout "Calvinist"?

[DarthVader]

Ditto! The Holy Spirit saves souls not individuals. He uses us a vehicles to accomplish His work.

[My2Cents]

Excerpts from "The Pop, the Fizz..."

At last count, there were about eight of us who hadn't read either one of Warren's two books, The Purpose Driven Church and The Purpose Driven Life. I know it is unlikely that we can all hold out much longer, so don't be ashamed if, even now, you have a copy of PDL in your stack of bathroom reading. I know the pressure is serious. Just do the best you can, and go down with your dignity...

In "Forty Days of Purpose," we all buy the same book, and go through the ABCs together. Aside from being a rather sad testimony to the ineptness of the average pastor to convey anything of importance and the worsening ADD condition of the average church member, this is all fine, and I'm sure is helpful to many people. The time spent going over Warren's principles is better than watching reruns of "Everybody Loves Raymond," but it's hardly the arrival of the Great Awakening....

In fact, this is the first time in a while I've heard book sales so openly touted as a way of measuring the work of the Holy Spirit. With a straight face, we are supposed to believe that the sudden, unprecedented interest in Warren's books is a major move of the Holy Spirit, directing all of us to get purpose-driven and Saddlebacked...

Warren's first book was a popularization of the Seeker Sensitive principles that now live, like a virus, in the mind of thousands of formerly sane pastors. The book's success was attributable to a mild word-of-mouth and Warren's success in making the various premises of Willow-Creekism more palatable to established, traditional churches. With his missions and "soul-winning" backgrounds, Warren's PDC was a book you could give to the chairman of deacons to explain why it was really important to offend the senior adults, retire the organist and let the local rock-band play those Skynard licks in morning worship....

[Not A Snowbird]

I did.