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To: Mad Dawg
I'm well aware of the distinction of doulia and latria and you have no basis to insult me while defending your religious belief--especially since you have no knowlege of me or my beliefs whatsoever.

Actions speak louder than terms however. That is why I posted the biblical command--which cleary forbids actions of worship...be they called veneration or not, the command clearly doesn't distinquish any difference--so nor should we. Perhaps though the tradition is more subtle and intelligent than Moses taking dictation of God's law?

Early pagans defended their paganism by claiming not to really worship the image of a god...using the same arguments of modern Christian image worshipers using doulia and latria . If one bows down before an image, or prays to someone other than Father Son and Holy Ghost, clearly they do violate the law of God.

Regarding veneration not being worship: "If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck....IT'S A DUCK!"

14 posted on 01/08/2006 6:08:48 PM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: AnalogReigns

"Worship," n. 1. Courtesy or reverence paid to worth; hence, honor or respect.

A dogmatic opposition to the value of good works means that you refuse to acknowledge the obvious: that some people are more virtuous than others, that calling Mary, say Queen of Heaven, is not to make her a goddress, but to make her the epitome of godliness. Who in God's creation is more worthy than the woman who bore the son of God? If sanctity is nearness to God, then what human being was closer? Saints do stumble and fall, but have any others played the role in the Divine Comedy that Mary has? Like the Father, I don't know how you can read the first two chapters of Luke and think that Mary would afterwards live her life with the vacilation that marked the faith of Peter, for instance. I take it you really think it no more than a pretty story. After all she did not have to wait for the Resurrection to know who her son was.


31 posted on 01/08/2006 8:20:22 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: AnalogReigns
If one bows down before an image, or prays to someone other than Father Son and Holy Ghost, clearly they do violate the law of God. Regarding veneration not being worship: "If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck....IT'S A DUCK!"

I posted my 39 before I saw the above. I will still ask, as a fellow protestant (I presume), where specifically is the Scriptural prohibition against asking a saint to pray to God on one's behalf? I don't do it (I pray to God), but just wondering if you have incontrovertible evidence that the practice is unscriptural. I don't see the harm when done specifically as my RC and Orthodox friends actuall do it.

42 posted on 01/08/2006 9:37:44 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: AnalogReigns
You shall not make for yourself a carved image

What about the Ark of the Covenant? The command is meant to be understood as worshiping things OTHER than God the Creator of heaven and earth.

If one bows down before an image, or prays to someone other than Father Son and Holy Ghost, clearly they do violate the law of God.

So when people bow before kings (as in the Bible), or ask others for help (called "prayer"), is that clearly violating God's Law?

Regards

51 posted on 01/09/2006 5:34:12 AM PST by jo kus
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