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To: Palladin; frgoff
"All Christian sects teach works as part of salvation. Some require baptism (a work). All require some sort of sinners prayer asking the Lord for forgiveness and accepting Christ as Savior (a work). All teach that saved Christians must follow the teachings of Christ (a work).

Great points! I will have to remember them for the next time I get into the works versus faith argument."

What sects require Baptism when Jesus Himself said to the (unbaptized) thief on the cross "Today you shall be with me in paradise"?

A sinner's prayer is not a "work".

Doing what God tells you to do is a "work" but salvation does not rest upon it.

Remember guys, Paul teaches us to pull down arguments and everything that resists the knowledge of God.

And as for those sad young men on their mission -- I mean no disrespect. If we all knew them personally, then I could see the need for Palladin's name calling of me -- but please. Paul tells us to preach the word in and out of season.
210 posted on 01/03/2006 2:44:24 PM PST by Californiajones ("The apprehension of beauty is the cure for apathy" - Thomas Aquinas)
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To: Californiajones
Doing what God tells you to do is a "work" but salvation does not rest upon it.

James 2:
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Yes, works alone will not save you, neither will faith only. Faith through the atonement of Christ is absolutely required for salvation. But our faith is made more "perfect" via works. By acting on what Christ has taught, our faith becomes stronger, and our knowledge of the truth of His teachings becomes more sure.
211 posted on 01/03/2006 2:54:01 PM PST by Adam-ondi-Ahman
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To: Californiajones
What sects require Baptism when Jesus Himself said to the (unbaptized) thief on the cross "Today you shall be with me in paradise"?

Who said the thief on the cross was unbaptized? Do you have a version of the Bible no one else does?

BTW, baptists require it, thus the name of the denomination.

A sinner's prayer is not a "work".

It's something you have to do, therefore, it is a work. Simply saying it isn't doesn't mean anything.

Doing what God tells you to do is a "work" but salvation does not rest upon it.

That's called cheap grace, and just about every Protestant preacher out there condemns it as a false and heretical teaching.

246 posted on 01/03/2006 4:38:36 PM PST by frgoff
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