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To: Forest Keeper
Sola Scriptura does not say to throw out anything not written. It says that God's written word is the only authority. Extra-scriptural things can be fine if they do not "offend" scripture.

I fail to see your distinction between "throwing out unwritten material" and "God's written word is the only authority". And obviously, WHO is to judge whether Scripture has been "offended"? YOU? Clearly, we both have different ideas of whether this has happened. Your view appears to be VERY literal and strict, complying with you preconceived views of man and his relationship (or more accurately, his lack of relationship, with God), while the Church's and St. Paul appears to be more open and more willing to encompass things that were said AND written.

I believe that the opening to Luke is in support of this by taking the step of showing that something must be written in order to be sure.

The reason why Luke writes is not because "people cannot know things that are orally given" but for the sake of organization and more clear reference. I don't find Luke at any time mentioning that oral traditions are to be abrogated. IF this was in his mind, he certainly would have wrote down something to the effect of "ignore any other rumours or teachings not given in written form from now on. They are utterly unreliable and could "offend" the Scriptures that I now write." Nowhere do we get the sense that Luke is writing an account because some people are baptizing babies when they shouldn't be...

As I have already acknowledged, I do not claim that the Luke passage is THE slam dunk for Sola Scriptura, but is useful in general support of it. We have also seen other scripture.

I don't see it supporting SOLA Scripture at all. I see it supporting the utility of written material - but NEVER denying that oral material had its utility AND AUTHORITY as well. It is the APOSTLES who were given the power to bind and loosen, NOT the Bible!

Because you can see out of one eye, should you then get rid of the other? Hardly. The Scriptures AND Apostolic Tradition were given to the Church as a deposit of faith, the Word of God for the Church. By ridding Christianity of part of this sense of God's Word, revelation is no longer clear. This much should be obvious to any person who considers the numerous denominations of Protestantism, even during the time of Luther.

Other Scripture verses have been refuted. It is just not there. Sola Scriptura is a tradition of men. The "Sola" part was never meant as the way that Christians would come to know God. Are you forgeting that people hardly even read the Bible until the 1500's, and these people were quite knowledgeable of the faith as a result of the teachers and practice of the faith.

And you are right that Sola Scriptura does place God's written word as the source and arbitrator of all other information. Therefore, everything else must be interpreted through the Bible, rather than the Bible being interpreted through everything else.

Fantasy that is not done in practice. The very fact that we disagree on Scriptures should point out that Scriptures do not interpret themselves!

Regards

6,614 posted on 05/14/2006 2:10:40 PM PDT by jo kus (For love is of God; and everyone that loves is born of God, and knows God. 1Jn 4:7)
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To: jo kus; Full Court
I fail to see your distinction between "throwing out unwritten material" and "God's written word is the only authority". And obviously, WHO is to judge whether Scripture has been "offended"? YOU?

Well, I said that unwritten material MAY be fine, thus it is not thrown out automatically. And "No", I am not the judge of what offends, the Spirit is. I either correctly interpret what the Spirit shows me or I do not. As my sanctification continues, I get it right more often. You would consider this the same as my saying I make up everything for myself because you do not accept that the Spirit would ever give the likes of me the time of day on scriptural matters. I think God is bringing me along on His time schedule and I will understand what I will when He says so.

It is the APOSTLES who were given the power to bind and loosen, NOT the Bible!

This does appear to be quintessential Catholicism. Men have the power and authority, not God's written word.

Because you can see out of one eye, should you then get rid of the other?

No, you should use it to see what's written on the other page. :)

The Scriptures AND Apostolic Tradition were given to the Church as a deposit of faith, the Word of God for the Church. By ridding Christianity of part of this sense of God's Word, revelation is no longer clear.

I don't think I will ever be convinced that Tradition plus scripture can possible result in clarity if both are on equal footing. They are so different that one must dominate, one must be read in light of the other. You already indicated above which is the dominant authority. Men have the power. Sure, you can make the meanings match through interpretation, but you'll never be able to get the actual words to match.

Are you forgeting that people hardly even read the Bible until the 1500's, and these people were quite knowledgeable of the faith as a result of the teachers and practice of the faith.

If they were quite knowledgeable it was to the extent that they were taught in consistency with scripture. Are you forgetting that the history of the Catholic Church has been to discourage the reading of the Bible in favor of oral teachings? Again, men have the power, not God's word.

The very fact that we disagree on Scriptures should point out that Scriptures do not interpret themselves!

That is a disjointed argument. That's like me saying that because we disagree on your Tradition, it is wrong. The scriptures do interpret themselves. Some see it, some do not.

6,837 posted on 05/18/2006 4:34:18 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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