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To: jo kus; Full Court
I fail to see your distinction between "throwing out unwritten material" and "God's written word is the only authority". And obviously, WHO is to judge whether Scripture has been "offended"? YOU?

Well, I said that unwritten material MAY be fine, thus it is not thrown out automatically. And "No", I am not the judge of what offends, the Spirit is. I either correctly interpret what the Spirit shows me or I do not. As my sanctification continues, I get it right more often. You would consider this the same as my saying I make up everything for myself because you do not accept that the Spirit would ever give the likes of me the time of day on scriptural matters. I think God is bringing me along on His time schedule and I will understand what I will when He says so.

It is the APOSTLES who were given the power to bind and loosen, NOT the Bible!

This does appear to be quintessential Catholicism. Men have the power and authority, not God's written word.

Because you can see out of one eye, should you then get rid of the other?

No, you should use it to see what's written on the other page. :)

The Scriptures AND Apostolic Tradition were given to the Church as a deposit of faith, the Word of God for the Church. By ridding Christianity of part of this sense of God's Word, revelation is no longer clear.

I don't think I will ever be convinced that Tradition plus scripture can possible result in clarity if both are on equal footing. They are so different that one must dominate, one must be read in light of the other. You already indicated above which is the dominant authority. Men have the power. Sure, you can make the meanings match through interpretation, but you'll never be able to get the actual words to match.

Are you forgeting that people hardly even read the Bible until the 1500's, and these people were quite knowledgeable of the faith as a result of the teachers and practice of the faith.

If they were quite knowledgeable it was to the extent that they were taught in consistency with scripture. Are you forgetting that the history of the Catholic Church has been to discourage the reading of the Bible in favor of oral teachings? Again, men have the power, not God's word.

The very fact that we disagree on Scriptures should point out that Scriptures do not interpret themselves!

That is a disjointed argument. That's like me saying that because we disagree on your Tradition, it is wrong. The scriptures do interpret themselves. Some see it, some do not.

6,837 posted on 05/18/2006 4:34:18 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
What sort of evidence do I have that your "decision" is guided by the Spirit and not your own personal opinion or even the devil? What does Paul say about the devil disguising himself as an angel of light to trick people? The problem with "each and every person being a pope" is that it is not feasible and is logically ridiculous, given that people don't come to the same message of what Scripture say. Between two Protestants, when you say "x" and it disagrees with another Protestant, then is the "Spirit" who tells you otherwise lying? Or is HIS "Spirit" lying?

What a mess. Fortunately, God didn't leave us in such a state. God desired that all men come to the knoweldge of the truth. WHERE IS THE PILLAR AND FOUNDATION OF THE TRUTH? Deny it all you want, but it is in the Bible. Or are you one of those Protestants who ignores the parts of Scriptures you don't like?

This does appear to be quintessential Catholicism. Men have the power and authority, not God's written word.

Men's power is based on the Written and Spoken Word of God given by Christ (God) to the Apostles. Unless, of course, you don't believe in the Apostles' teachings are from God.

They are so different that one must dominate, one must be read in light of the other. You already indicated above which is the dominant authority. Men have the power. Sure, you can make the meanings match through interpretation, but you'll never be able to get the actual words to match.

Are you aware of how Christians came to the belief of the Trinity? Do you think the Scriptures alone told us? Arius thought that and was flat wrong, just like Protestants who read the Scriptures outside of Sacred Tradition.

Are you forgetting that the history of the Catholic Church has been to discourage the reading of the Bible in favor of oral teachings?

The Church discourages people from reading the Bible OUTSIDE of the Apostolic Tradition, the original meaning and intent of the authors. Heresy starts when man thinks he can rationalize God's intent spoken through the Church.

That [The very fact that we disagree on Scriptures should point out that Scriptures do not interpret themselves!] is a disjointed argument. That's like me saying that because we disagree on your Tradition, it is wrong. The scriptures do interpret themselves. Some see it, some do not.

The Scriptures are read through a particular concept that the reader already has. You read it with different ideas. You, for example, think that man is evil and totally corrupt and can do nothing to cooperate with God's grace, nor can he refuse the Holy Spirit. Thus, you read over passages that deny that or twist them to mean something else. Thus, Scriptures alone don't do much good by themselves. You should know by now that a person can prove practically any point of view from the Scriptures. Have you not argued with another Protestant over whether Baptism is necessary for Salvation? The two of you will post verses that prove your points and you will both call each other wrong.

And neither will ever know who REALLY is correct...

Not really a great way for "man to come to the knowledge of the truth".

Regards

6,848 posted on 05/18/2006 7:59:38 AM PDT by jo kus (For love is of God; and everyone that loves is born of God, and knows God. 1Jn 4:7)
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