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To: HarleyD; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; fortheDeclaration; Agrarian; monkfan
in order to keep Mary as a Co-Redeemer of the faith, it becomes necessary to elevate her beyond reason

Mary is a co-redeemer because of her unique status of the Mother of God. The Incarnation and Redemption has become possible through her. Hence she is the co-Redeemer.

Her sinlessness is not logically necessary for her co-redeemership. The sinlessness itself follows form the full message of the Gospel alongside the co-redeemership.

When it states [in Rom 3:23] that all have sinned it includes Mary

No it doesn't. The adjacent verses make clear that "all" refers to the Godless who toil uinder the law of nature or the law of Moses (compare verses 11-18). That passage stands in direct contrast to Luke 1:28, "hail full of grace". That grace is the grace of Christ that justifies the believer, starting with Mary, as Paul explains in verses 24-30.

6,160 posted on 05/10/2006 4:09:36 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg

Using this reasoning, as the HS indwells believers, we also are divine vessels carrying God around. Perhaps we can be the ark of the covenant.


6,161 posted on 05/10/2006 4:15:13 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings
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To: annalex; HarleyD; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; fortheDeclaration; Agrarian; monkfan; ...
Mary is a co-redeemer

Job 19:25  For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Psalms 19:14  Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Psalms 78:35  And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.

Proverbs 23:11  For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee.

Isaiah 41:14  Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

Isaiah 43:14  ¶Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.

Isaiah 44:6  Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 44:24  Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Isaiah 47:4  As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel.

Isaiah 48:17  Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Isaiah 49:7  ¶Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

Isaiah 49:26  And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Isaiah 54:5  For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Isaiah 54:8  In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

Isaiah 59:20  And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

Isaiah 60:16  Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Isaiah 63:16  Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

Jeremiah 50:34  Their Redeemer is strong; the LORD of hosts is his name: he shall throughly plead their cause, that he may give rest to the land, and disquiet the inhabitants of Babylon.

Mary is not "co redeemer."

The Holy one of Israel needeth no help.


6,187 posted on 05/10/2006 7:10:08 PM PDT by Full Court (www.justbible.com)
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To: annalex; HarleyD; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; fortheDeclaration; Agrarian
"That passage stands in direct contrast to Luke 1:28, "hail full of grace". That grace is the grace of Christ that justifies the believer, starting with Mary, as Paul explains in verses 24-30."

The Greek word for "grace" that used in this verse is not the word for the gift of salvation, but the common word for favor.

Luk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, [thou that art] highly favoured, the Lord [is] with thee: blessed [art] thou among women.

The definition of this form of the Greek word "charitoo {khar-ee-to'-o}" is,
1) to make graceful
a) charming, lovely, agreeable
2) to pursue with grace, compass with favour
3) to honour with blessings

The only other place the word form is used in the New Testament is Eph 1:6 "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." The phrase "made us accepted" is the same word form.

"Mary is a co-redeemer because of her unique status of the Mother of God."

Jesus did not look upon his mother as "co-redeemer" and in fact thought those who heard and obeyed the word of God were as equally blessed as Mary.

Luk 11:27 "And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed [is] the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it."
6,193 posted on 05/10/2006 7:16:46 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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