To: stripes1776; Forest Keeper; qua; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; AlbionGirl; kosta50; Kolokotronis
In other words, God uses the evil he does not create to defeat and overcome the evil he does not create. In other words, the death of Christ on the cross results in the overcoming of death and the resurrection of Christ. Is that consistent with your understanding of God's will? I would suggest you've left out a very important element of this equation; God obviously predestined all of this from the very beginning. In other words your sentence should read:
God uses the evil he does not create predestined to happened to defeat and overcome the evil he does not create.
It seems our confusion on this matter is in the word "evil". I looked up the definition and evil is defined as
adj: Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet. noun: The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction
I believe it would be fair to say none of us believe our loving God to be an "evil tyrant" so I would suggest our disagreement comes in with "causing ruin, injury, or pain". I would point to the case of Job where God was not the author of Job's ruin, injury and pain but God was certainly the one who allowed it to happened. Satan was the cause. God granted permission. Directly the cause was Satan. Indirectly God used Satan to effect the cause. Since we know that all things work together for good with those who love the Lord, we must conclude the suffering of Job was allowed by God for his benefit.
God predestines things to happen, using both good and bad, to effect His good and divine will.
4,698 posted on
04/16/2006 5:41:59 AM PDT by
HarleyD
("A man's steps are from the Lord, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24 (HNV))
To: HarleyD; stripes1776; Forest Keeper; qua; blue-duncan; AlbionGirl; kosta50; Kolokotronis
Satan was the cause. God granted permission And Job chose not to curse God. Did God allow that too? Yes, He did allow it, and by virtue of that allowance we possess yje freedom to choose, the "allowance" of God being limited only to our freedom and not to our choices, lest the choices are not free.
If God is a God of life, then He did not create evil that is the cause of death. The evil is inherent in our freedom to estrange ourselves from God. Yes, God allows that. But He also allows for us to cleave to Him. As Fr. John S. Romanides says that in God's domain "there are other wills which He created, which can choose either the kingdom of God or the kingdom of death and destruction."
Our disagreement is rooted in Calvinist refusal to accept free will as the gift of God. In your theology, God not only predestined satan to make cruel but foolish attempts with Job, but He also predestined Job's suffering and refusal to give in to satan! Where is the guilt and the credit if all this choosing and reacting is all God's doing?
Allowance has nothing to do with who is the author of evil because God allows us to be wicked or good. If we choose to be wicked, we do so on our own because He doesn't help us commit sin, so we commit sin all on our own. On the other hand, if we wish to do good and ask Him for help, He will grant our wish and help us do good.
4,699 posted on
04/16/2006 12:19:20 PM PDT by
kosta50
(Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson