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To: Forest Keeper
The context of Ephesians 1:11 matters:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with spiritual blessings in heavenly places, in Christ: 4 As he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and unspotted in his sight in charity. 5 Who hath predestinated us unto the adoption of children through Jesus Christ unto himself: according to the purpose of his will: 6 Unto the praise of the glory of his grace, in which he hath graced us in his beloved son. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the remission of sins, according to the riches of his grace, 8 Which hath superabounded in us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 That he might make known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure, which he hath purposed in him, 10 In the dispensation of the fulness of times, to re-establish all things in Christ, that are in heaven and on earth, in him. 11 In whom we also are called by lot, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things according to the counsel of his will. 12 That we may be unto the praise of his glory, we who before hoped Christ: 13 In whom you also, after you had heard the word of truth, (the gospel of your salvation;) in whom also believing, you were signed with the holy Spirit of promise, 14 Who is the pledge of our inheritance, unto the redemption of acquisition, unto the praise of his glory.
The context is of grace and goodness, not of sin and evil. To use Ephesians 1:11 as a prooftext of God ordaining evil is another instance of Protestant abuse of scripture.
3,553 posted on 03/14/2006 11:16:30 AM PST by annalex
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To: annalex; HarleyD
The context is of grace and goodness, not of sin and evil. To use Ephesians 1:11 as a prooftext of God ordaining evil is another instance of Protestant abuse of scripture.

The original question was whether God ordained the fall of Adam. You don't seem to like that idea, and apparently, you think that if God had done so, it would have been evil. If true, why do you think that? Do you believe that God is sovereign, and could ordain as He pleases, irrespective of your judgment on whether something is good or evil?

Do you look at what God does and then judge: "that was good or that was evil"? OR, do you look at what God does and say: "that thing that God did, it is good"? OR, do you look at what God does and say: "I really hope things turn out the way God wanted them to, He's a good God and He really deserves only the best things to happen to Him"?

The whole point I'm making is: what does sovereignty mean to you? If God didn't want Adam to fall, did God have any options? Does God get what He wants or not?

3,667 posted on 03/17/2006 4:32:56 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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