BINGO! Great posts, Harley, both here and in 3269! The argument I have been getting on this is that God chooses us, AND, we choose God, AND, that since God is outside of time, these two things happen exactly simultaneously. How does that work? It's a mystery. I'm not mocking, because there really are mysteries when it comes to God. It's just that I am still struggling with this particular mystery. :) My view is that scripture fully supports that in real time, from either God's or our POV, that He chose us first, and only that led to us ever choosing Him.
Sigh...How can there be a "first" or "before" WITHIN a moment of time that is unchanging??? From God's point of view, all time is NOW. Thus, the first moment and last one are rolled into one moment to Him. How can God NOT see our response to our actions?
God's ways are not our ways. Isn't that clear this also refers to Time?
Regards
Amen.
"We love him, because he first loved us." -- 1 John 4:19
It's important to keep the order straight.
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake" -- Phil. 1:28-29"And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
Isn't this amazing Scripture? Paul is telling us that the ungodly see our lack of fear as a sign of our ruin.
But we are not to fear. Indeed, we know our certainty is "a token of our salvation," God-given and God-ordained because He rose from the dead and it's all true -- we have been saved by His mercy alone. None can hurt us nor pry us from His grasp.