[jo kus]

My view is that scripture fully supports that in real time, from either God's or our POV, that He chose us first, and only that led to us ever choosing Him.

Sigh...How can there be a "first" or "before" WITHIN a moment of time that is unchanging??? From God's point of view, all time is NOW. Thus, the first moment and last one are rolled into one moment to Him. How can God NOT see our response to our actions?

God's ways are not our ways. Isn't that clear this also refers to Time?

Regards

[Forest Keeper]

FK: "My view is that scripture fully supports that in real time, from either God's or our POV, that He chose us first, and only that led to us ever choosing Him."

Sigh...How can there be a "first" or "before" WITHIN a moment of time that is unchanging??? From God's point of view, all time is NOW. Thus, the first moment and last one are rolled into one moment to Him.

You seem pretty confident for a guy who can't even BEGIN to explain how any of this works! :) You make un-Biblical declaratory statements and say "There you go..."

God's ways are not our ways. Isn't that clear this also refers to Time?

I have no problem with that, but what I do have a problem with is your real claim that God's ways are YOUR ways in relation to time. It seems like you are taking all of your time problems, such as when the elect are defined, and throwing them into a mystery. "God is outside of time, so we Catholics don't have to face any difficult questions about the theology concerning election." It's a mystery, and anyone questioning it is naive. What a neat package.