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To: Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper

Hm. Convince me.

Here's the problem. God did not create evil. There is no other creator. Evil therefore is absence of God, rather than a created substance. Evangelist John explains the paradox by describing God as light and evil as darkness, -- absence of light -- in the first chapter of his gospel.

We can, of course, say that Satan, who was created an angel, remains tangible and substantial even following his fall from grace. This is the usage in the Creed (*). But we cannot blanketly reject the formulation that evil is an absence rather than a presence.

(*) The Russian translation of the Creed dispenses with "evil" altogether and pleas to "deliver us from the deceiver".


3,346 posted on 03/07/2006 5:08:49 PM PST by annalex
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To: annalex; Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper
Hm. Convince me. Here's the problem. God did not create evil. There is no other creator. Evil therefore is absence of God, rather than a created substance

Kolo did not say that evil is a creature of God; evil is a state. If evil is absence of God, how does that make God ominpresent? Evil is a state of mind that rejects God. It is not something where God excluded Himself. It is an act of will, free will, whether it be demonic or human. If we cannot reject God, then our will is not free, as the Calvinsits claim (and therefore there can be no evil). But the Scriputre show clearly that we can reject God, thereby giving rise to evil.

Demons are said to howl outside of the monasteries on Mt Athos. And the Desert Fathers speak of them as very real.

There is no mention of the evil one in the Creed, annalex. There is no place for satan in our Creed! You are confusing the Lord's Prayer with the Creed. Yes, the Slavonic version says no izbavi nas ot lukavago (but rescue us from the deceiver). The deceiver is the name of the evil one. I am not sure what your point is.

3,347 posted on 03/07/2006 5:35:35 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: annalex

" The Russian translation of the Creed dispenses with "evil" altogether and pleas to "deliver us from the deceiver"."

Same difference! :)


3,348 posted on 03/07/2006 5:46:25 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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